@Morello ; About the upcoming Rengar "rework"

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DaOwnage

Member

05-03-2013

i have a question about his item...will you be making any changes to it?.. at the moment it has pretty weak stacks even for a snowball item so it feels not worth the buy. if you want a suggestion you could make it give health per lvl also cuz nobody likes a squishy kitty


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IcyTor44

Member

05-03-2013

I just hope that these changes will promote Rengar into a higher status, really what I think makes him so undesireable is that he plays like a lame bruiser when honestly this guy should play like an assasin! He's the greatest hunter in the league arguably, and he should act like one, really playing for burst and power instead of trying to duke it out and see who can survive the most hits, cause while some people enjoy the thrill of battle, Rengar is the Thrill of the Hunt, which really comes down to finding your prey, observing their weakness and than quickly and efficiently cutting them down...instead of just running around without a head roaring at you and sorta flinging his arms towards you like we saw before most people just dropped him, it is really sad


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deynische

Junior Member

05-03-2013

guys guys i got it.

When ult is activated: global roar, but the visual indicator is only a local (but large) shock wave.


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FinalBoss Wilson

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Longer stealth will fix Rengar's ult with warwick's E added will to let prey know fear. =)
I approve. But I hope you look into giving it back faster fade time. 3s is a billion years. Maybe reduce the fade time if Rengar is in bush.

The scale of Ferocity effects with level is nice and will using any effect as opposed to the one you leveled will pretty boss.

But I think alot of Rengar's problems are in his W.
More armor and mr and weak aoe dmg since the nerf because AP Rengar was to much burst. The empowered version heal nerfed because it was too much hp on a short cd. When it was a percentage max health it rewarded Rengar for building hp/tank. You're tanky? Roar you're more tanky. Take the aoe dmg off it if you can buff healing portion of the ability. I think that without the aoe dmg the unferocity version healing for a small amount/increasing tank stats with the empowered version giving Rengar some move speed to catch prey/tacitly retreat as escaping without using his ult can be problematic.

Cheers.


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Battletick

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classick View Post
I may not be Morello, but figured I can provide some insight on the Rengar changes for you guys .

The main point to emphasize is that we're not trying to change Rengar's feel at all. What we do want to change is some of the not so appreciated components of Rengar that make him difficult to balance.

One of these problems is the fact that his Ferocity effects are more powerful based on the rank of the spell. As seen since Rengar's release, builds that capitalize on double casting the ability you're maxing has been problematic (early double Q all-in builds/Tank splitpush double W build). The current solution for this problem is scaling his Ferocity effects with his level across the board (like his heal currently does).

This will make the Ferocity effects equal in power regardless of what you are maxing, allowing you to choose the Ferocity effect that is best suited for the situation you are in instead of being obligated to use whatever spell you have the most points in. This will also allow us to put more power into his base stats and base abilities which should help with his jungle clear.

Another change we're currently looking at is tweaking how his ultimate works. Currently Rengar jumps at you out of no where and it's very hard to react to him because there's not much information being conveyed to the opponent. Now when Rengar activates his ultimate all enemies that Rengar sees will be made aware that he's in the area. What this does is gives the opponent more information so that they can react to the situation.

With this change it allows us to put a lot more power into the ultimate, increasing the duration and speed. While Rengar may lose the ability to jump on an unsuspecting enemy, it enables him to create really cool mind games and toy with his opponents which we've seen from internal testing. On top of that Rengar can get to a location much quicker and stay in stealth much longer retaining the feel of hunting down wounded opponents or scouting an area for priority targets.


Nothing here is set in stone but it's currently the direction we're going, hopefully that helps shed some light on the upcoming Rengar changes.
This honestly sounds like Rengar nerfs incoming.... O_o


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Avatar of Anger

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classick View Post
I may not be Morello, but figured I can provide some insight on the Rengar changes for you guys .

The main point to emphasize is that we're not trying to change Rengar's feel at all. What we do want to change is some of the not so appreciated components of Rengar that make him difficult to balance.

One of these problems is the fact that his Ferocity effects are more powerful based on the rank of the spell. As seen since Rengar's release, builds that capitalize on double casting the ability you're maxing has been problematic (early double Q all-in builds/Tank splitpush double W build). The current solution for this problem is scaling his Ferocity effects with his level across the board (like his heal currently does).

This will make the Ferocity effects equal in power regardless of what you are maxing, allowing you to choose the Ferocity effect that is best suited for the situation you are in instead of being obligated to use whatever spell you have the most points in. This will also allow us to put more power into his base stats and base abilities which should help with his jungle clear.

Another change we're currently looking at is tweaking how his ultimate works. Currently Rengar jumps at you out of no where and it's very hard to react to him because there's not much information being conveyed to the opponent. Now when Rengar activates his ultimate all enemies that Rengar sees will be made aware that he's in the area. What this does is gives the opponent more information so that they can react to the situation.

With this change it allows us to put a lot more power into the ultimate, increasing the duration and speed. While Rengar may lose the ability to jump on an unsuspecting enemy, it enables him to create really cool mind games and toy with his opponents which we've seen from internal testing. On top of that Rengar can get to a location much quicker and stay in stealth much longer retaining the feel of hunting down wounded opponents or scouting an area for priority targets.


Nothing here is set in stone but it's currently the direction we're going, hopefully that helps shed some light on the upcoming Rengar changes.
Making them know he is ulting will be more of a nerf no matter how much power you put into it. I thought you guys already ruined Rengar it looks like I was wrong.


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Spookgetti

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classick View Post
That's currently the idea
I guess a global/area activation sound would be reasonable... but um, if people hear it, they'll group up and wait for him..so his ulti will pretty much be useless. The passive thing is alright, no oen pays attention to the bottom of there screen during a team fight or an great escape anyways.


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Avatar of Anger

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Riot is completely killing him as an assassin and making him a bruiser. Some hunter right? Way to make things worse Riot.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

05-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ankokukai View Post
That's the point, if YOU, and YOU personally dont like Rengar because other champs are stronger, dont play him, dont look at him and dont talk about him

You are only caring about his power level, not his feel, not his hunter playstyle ~ by comparing him to Zed and Talon you're only talking about his power level ~ you are basically saying that if a champion isnt strong YOU cant enjoy him/her

Go play Zed and Talon, leave real Rengar players enjoy their champ, even if he's weak ~ same applies to Poppy players (for an example) ~, they know she's not viable because of her extremely weak early game and lack of an spot in the meta, but people like her that way, because they know if they reach late game, they are an unstoppable smurf God
Why is my opinion less valid than yours? I fell in love with Rengar and played him even before his initial QOLs and buffs. I love his assassin-ness, i love his passive, i love his SotD synergy. Then what happened? They kicked all that cool stuff in the shins because he also functioned as an AP, he had a broken heal (which didn't end up getting fixed), he has a defense steroid (WTF) and he has stealth. People tried to play him in every single damn way except the way he should be played, and now he's subpar because of that.

There's no way to make this simpler. As long as rengar has his W, and he has pure stealth on his ult, he will be stuck being a bad assassin and bruiser and splitpusher and ganker and [...] instead of just a good assassin or just a good bruiser. Further, he will fall into a class of champion Riot has directly stated is poor design and needs a rework.

Your opinion is as valid as mine, and I'll quit playing Rengar if they don't take him in the direction I'd like to see, but I do feel compelled to speak out against losing him. I've already had 3 champions including Rengar assigned to the "boring because riot ruined what I bought them for" bin, I'd like to pull him out of there one day.


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DrBleck

Senior Member

05-03-2013

How about we just stop making assassins with ways to mitigate and/or avoid damage for little cost?

I'm looking at you, Diana/Akali.