Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Who invented the word "Toxic"?

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Golden Dawn Mage

Senior Member

04-26-2013

Toxic is a word actually in the dictionary, and it is being used properly by this community. It is a way to describe people of that type. No one here just "invented it".


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Tlmeout

Senior Member

04-26-2013

A toxin (from Ancient Greek: τοξικόν toxikon) is a poisonous substance produced within living cells or organisms;[1][2] man-made substances created by artificial processes are thus excluded. The term was first used by organic chemist Ludwig Brieger (1849–1919).[3]
For a toxic substance not produced within living organisms, "toxicant" and "toxics" are also sometimes used.[citation needed].
Toxins can be small molecules, peptides, or proteins that are capable of causing disease on contact with or absorption by body tissues interacting with biological macromolecules such as enzymes or cellular receptors. Toxins vary greatly in their severity, ranging from usually minor and acute (as in a bee sting) to almost immediately deadly (as in botulinum toxin).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Tlmeout

Senior Member

04-26-2013

Thus meaning harmful


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Rabidwhale

Senior Member

04-26-2013

toxic (adj.) Look up toxic at Dictionary.com
1660s, from French toxique, from Late Latin toxicus "poisoned," from Latin toxicum "poison," from Greek toxikon (pharmakon) "(poison) for use on arrows," from toxikon, neuter of toxikos "pertaining to arrows or archery," and thus to a bow, from toxon "bow," probably from a Scythian word that also was borrowed into Latin as taxus "yew."


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Axiopath

Senior Member

04-26-2013

Quote:
Lyte:
On average, the vast majority of matchmaking matches are pretty decent; however, one of the issues with matchmaking perception is that players use third party websites to judge the 'quality' of a match.

With the introduction of Leagues, websites typically only use a combination of tiers/divisions/LP/wins/losses to assess your effective MMR, but they aren't accurate. In fact, in many cases, players have up to 300-400 MMR difference compared to their profiles on websites. Combine this with the fact that players tend to check profiles only in major snowball losses... and you can see why false perceptions and associations can form.

Isn't that exactly why mmr should not be hidden? I don't get why you hide the determining factor in all games it kind of frustrates me not know exactly how I match up at the moment to other people


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

GundayMonday

Recruiter

04-26-2013

Quote:
Lyte:
On average, the vast majority of matchmaking matches are pretty decent; however, one of the issues with matchmaking perception is that players use third party websites to judge the 'quality' of a match.

With the introduction of Leagues, websites typically only use a combination of tiers/divisions/LP/wins/losses to assess your effective MMR, but they aren't accurate. In fact, in many cases, players have up to 300-400 MMR difference compared to their profiles on websites. Combine this with the fact that players tend to check profiles only in major snowball losses... and you can see why false perceptions and associations can form.


Completely agree with you on mmr measurements being off on third party sites, but even a poorly calibrated measuring stick can still give valid feedback if you use it to measure everything (The bias is in every data point, and effectively cancels itself off when you compare different clusters). I'm also looking at all of my games, not just the snowballs.

I'm more interested in if you've noticed the same correlation between skill mismatches and toxic behavior. My sample size is only a few hundred games, so I might be seeing something weird in the noise. Curious what it looks like with everything.

Granted you'd need a way to pull out mid vs mid, top vs top, jungler vs jungler which is a lot easier to do one game at a time :-)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lyte

Lead Social Systems Designer

Follow RiotLyte on Twitter

04-26-2013

Quote:
huedan:
And expecting people to stop trash talking on the internet isn't asinine? I don't know how long you've been gaming or using the internet but trash talk has been a part of gaming since the beginning. The things people consider toxic and players receive bans for are nothing compared to some of the things that get said on national television in debates, etc, etc, etc. You aren't going to convince millions of people to act differently than a way that is acceptable beyond their monitors - but you could change and adapt the game system itself.


When has the goal ever been to get rid of trash talking?

One of the inspiring observations from player behavior research in League of Legends is how the online community has evolved over time. Think about online communities as their own infant culture, evolving over time and maturing with their own set of rules. For the first time, we can document and record every action and see how they impact the emergence of social norms in a culture. We don't believe that online behavior is worse than behavior in real life because players are anonymous. We believe it has to do with accountability and consequences. For decades, online communities matured without any semblance of accountability; in fact, in many cases when someone behaved negatively they were reinforced as others joined them because they saw that there were no consequences.

Very early on, a lot of players thought the player behavior team was out to get rid of offensive language or trash talking--that isn't true. Profanity is OK, the problem is harassment and abuse. The problem is when a player directs profanity and targets someone else. We agree with the vast majority of players in League of Legends--it's not OK to throw around homophobic, sexist or racist terms. In fact, Tribunal cases with these examples are among the most highly punished cases in the entire system. Over time, you can see that League of Legends players began to align on the idea that profanity is OK, but harassment and abuse is not--that's cool to see.

You can say that racism or the usage of the word "f*g" has been in gaming since the beginning and is just a part of the culture. I have to ask, so what? Who says that is the way things have to be? Time and time again, the players in League have shown that they are a mature, sophisticated group that don't care for that kind of language.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Noobgrenade

Senior Member

04-26-2013

Quote:
Kezzer:
is it not possible to have a "preferred role" choice filter without forcing a meta?
at the end of the day, the goal would be to remove a huge chunk of negotiating while still giving options. nothing physical would prevent you from taking a ap carry instead of a jungle but it would at least give youa fighting chance to not be stuck with 3 other people who want the same thing you want.

I notice lots of people play only 1 role...so when they dont getthat role...they either get mad or pick another role they cant play for **** then they are mad at:1-having a bad game in a role they hate 2-mad at potentially seeing the person who picked their role not having a good game.

These lead to losing frustration / rage / arguing for various different psychological reasons.

by having a role selector....though you can negotiate and switch role in game or switch meta...IE we want 2 top instead of a jungler...well you have 1-better chances of finding people qualified in their respective role 2-no bickering over insta lock / stealing roles and more time can be spent strategizing and figuring out a good champ chemistry.

Role queue means people have to queue for 1 of five roles. It assumes the existence of those roles, and ignores the existence of others. It rules out the evolution of the meta into something that could have, say, two junglers with no support, because it assumes from the get-go that there will be a support. It makes it harder to develop niche strategies. This is not acceptable.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Arcticfury

Senior Member

04-26-2013

Quote:
Lyte:
On average, the vast majority of matchmaking matches are pretty decent; however, one of the issues with matchmaking perception is that players use third party websites to judge the 'quality' of a match.

With the introduction of Leagues, websites typically only use a combination of tiers/divisions/LP/wins/losses to assess your effective MMR, but they aren't accurate. In fact, in many cases, players have up to 300-400 MMR difference compared to their profiles on websites. Combine this with the fact that players tend to check profiles only in major snowball losses... and you can see why false perceptions and associations can form.


When matched, if my team has a lower "net" MMR than the opponents, but let's say I have a higher than the opponents "net", if we lose do I get a reduced LP loss or an increased? It is my belief that my LP gain or loss is based on my solo MMR vs. their net rather than my team's net vs. their net.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Trazier

Senior Member

04-26-2013

Quote:
Lyte:
I talked to a few scientists recently about Champion Select, and mentioned that it's like putting 5 strangers together and asking them to negotiate a plan they all agree on within 90 seconds. The scientists laughed and said, "That's a problem we've been studying for decades."




Isn't that a stacked question? I mean, unless you're talking about normal blind pick, but is that the format you run tournaments on? No? Why use that as an example then?


In ranked/draft There's nothing stopping people from using the whole time to strategize. The problem is not everyone feels that way.30 sec (We'll say 28 just in case they can't derpclick in 2 seconds), x3 for the bans, +?? depending on how long it takes the opponents to ban. X5 for each champ being picked, +?? for how long it takes the enemies to pick, and then 30 sec at the end.


Team captain can easily stretch 'champ select' out to about 3 minutes by themselves. +2-4 more minutes depending on the allies/enemies selection alacrity.



The biggest issue with your trollbunal is that anyone permabanned, no matter what the circumstances, are told "Well you got banned a lot before now so you're a dirtbag and hey, hope you die anyway, so get lost".


But if someone gets a false positive (or 2, or 3) the response is "Well, this can happen, it's unfortunate.... BUT AT LEAST (so far~My thoughts) NOBODY HAS EVER BEEN FALSE REPORTED ENOUGH TO HAVE BEEN PERMABANNED!!!" This is not how it should be.



I wonder how much money riot's lost on trollbunal fears. I used to buy $50-100 in RP every year. Note I say 'used to'...