Do you like the Two Sion Solution?

Yes, it's great! Good remake ideas! 682 53.53%
Yes, it's good but your ideas need serious improvement. 181 14.21%
Yes, I think Sion should be split into two characters but not the two you propose 94 7.38%
No, Riot should find a solution that keeps Sion's mixed identity alive in just one champion. 317 24.88%
Voters: 1274. You may not vote on this poll

@Riot: Sion Remake Proposal - The Two Sion Solution

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plasmatorture

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04-25-2013

You've stated that Sion is particularly difficult to remake because of people's wildly different expectations for hit kit. And it's clear, he's basically two champions squeezed into one. To me the solution to remaking him and meeting expectations for both play styles is obvious: split him into two champs.

I see the highlights of his kit as follows:

To some players, Sion is a brutal AD champion. He has infinite scaling health, a great AD buff on hit, 100% bonus lifesteal that spreads to allies, and a pretty nifty stun to gap close and a decent shield to keep him alive.

To other players, Sion is a powerful early game AP lane bully. He has a great poke with a stun attached with a .9 AP ratio, and a great AoE nuke with a shield attached with a .9 AP ratio. His autoattacks always hurt extra and he can gain infinitely scaling health.

The Solution
Split his kit into two champions! One retains his E, R, and has heavily modified versions of his other abilities or completely new passive/q/w. He should be a giant undead warrior with an axe and feel like the ultimate warrior Sion's supposed to be. The other can be some other undead creature or something - perhaps something storyline related (Sion's soul as a ghost) or perhaps something completely new. He should retain Sion's Q and W and similar versions to his other 3 skills.

Here are my suggestions:

======================
Sion, the Undead Champion
Attachment 672007

Passive, Feel No Pain: Sion ignores up to 20 + 2% of his maximum hp worth of damage each time he is hit by an autoattack. The damage reduction is calculated before armor and percentage damage reduction benefits are taken into account.

Q, Heavy Blow: Melee skillshot. Sion holds his axe high above his head with both hands and channels for up to 1.5 seconds before slamming it down in front of him. You may recast Heavy Blow while its charging to reorient Sion towards the cursor and immediately release the attack. It deals 50-120 / 70-170 / 90-220 / 110-270 / 130-320 (+ Bonus AD) (+10% Sion's Maximum HP) scaling physical damage in a very short 90* cone. If charged the full duration it also stuns for 1.5 seconds. [Sion will flash from about .75-.9 seconds after charging - if you recast Heavy Blow then, it will do full damage as if you had charged it the full duration. unsure if this adds good gameplay or just makes it needlessly complex]

Cost: 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 health
Cooldown: 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 seconds
Range: 400

W, Ferocious Charge: Sion dashes forward in a line, dealing 60 / 90 / 130 / 170 / 210 (+ Bonus AD) (+10% Sion's Maximum HP) physical damage to each enemy he passes through and knocking them slightly aside. He gains a shield that lasts for 10 seconds with life equal to half the amount of damage dealt to enemy champions with this ability.

Cost: 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 health
Cooldown: 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 seconds
Range: 600

E, Enrage: Toggle While toggled on, Sion has 25 / 35 / 45 / 55 / 65 increased attack damage at the cost of 6 / 8 / 10 / 12 / 14 health for each autoattack. While Enrage is active, Sion permanently increases his maximum health whenever he kills a unit with either his attacks or abilities. This effect is doubled against champions and large units.

Toggle, Cooldown: 7 / 6 / 5 / 4 / 3 seconds

R, Cannibalism: For 20 seconds, Sion gains 50% / 75% / 100% bonus lifesteal, 10% / 20% / 30% bonus spellvamp, and 50% attack speed. Additionally, Sion's spells and autoattacks will heal surrounding allies for 25% / 37.5% / 50% of the damage dealt.

Cost: 15% current HP
Cooldown: 90 seconds
======================
Changelog
-Restored E's Passive to be his normal Passive
-Restored life gain to his E
-Increase damage on Q
-Added minor knockback to his W
-reduced shield amount on W
I feel this retains the overall spirit of Sion's AD focused kit while fixing his issues with not having a gap closer. His stun now has counterplay and adds something unique to the game. The only problem I see is he loses out on his ability to start with an AP build and transition into AD but I don't think that's ever really viable on current Sion anyway. I decided to make this version manaless since I think that synergizes with being a champion with infinite health scaling better.

======================
Kairon, the Undead Parasite
Attachment 672005
Art credit: Chase Stone

Passive, Soul Harvest: Kairon permanently increases his maximum health by 1 / 2 / 3 (increasing at 6 and 11) every time he kills an enemy. This effect is doubled against champions and large units.

Q, Hypnotic Gaze: Kairon's gaze hypnotizes a single enemy, dealing 70 / 125 / 180 / 240 / 300 (+ 70% AP) (+health spent to cast this ability) magic damage and stunning it for 1.5 seconds.

Cost: 100 Mana, 8% Current Health
Cooldown: 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 / 8
Range: 550

W, Death's Caress: Kairon surrounds himself with a shield which absorbs 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 / 300 (+ 70% AP) (+health spent to cast this ability) damage for up to 10 seconds. After 2 seconds, if the shield has not been destroyed, the ability can be cast again to explode and deal 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 / 300 (+ 70% AP) (+health spent to cast this ability) magic damage to surrounding enemies. It will explode automatically after the 10 seconds have passed

Cost: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 Mana. 8% Current Health
Cooldown: 8 seconds after shield expires

E, Essence Transfer: Kairon creates a leash on a target and channels for up to 5 seconds. If the target leaves the range of Kairon's leash, he will stop channeling.
On enemy cast: Deals 40 / 70 / 100 / 130 / 160 (+ 25% AP) magic damage each second and heals Kairon for 50% / 55% / 60% / 65% / 70% of the damage done.
On ally cast: Kairon sacrifices 5% of his current health each second to heal the ally for 80% / 90% / 100% / 110% / 120% of the health lost.

Cost: 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120 mana
Cooldown: 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6
Range: 475
Leash Range: 700

R, Gonna Take You For a Ride: Kairon leaps onto target champion, attaching himself to them for a period of time. During this time Kairon moves where that champion moves, can cast Essence Transfer without channeling and his other spells freely, and can autoattack the attached champion if its an enemy. Kairon may reactivate this ability to end the effect.
On enemy cast: Kairon latches onto an enemy champion for 3 / 4 / 5 seconds, slowing their movespeed by 30% / 40% / 50%. This also silences the enemy for half the duration.
On ally cast: Kairon latches onto an ally champion for 6 / 8 / 10 seconds, speeding up their movespeed by 20% / 25% / 30%. The shield from Death's Caress will protect both Kairon and the attached allied champion.

Cost: 100 Mana
Cooldown: 60
Leap range: 500
======================
Changelog
-Doubled passive for large champs/monsters
-increased health costs of Q and W slightly
-W can now be activated quicker
-E reduced healing amount greatly from both enemy and ally cast
-Reduced duration of silence on ultimate


I think this addresses the issues AP Sion users face by giving him a third damage source, plus a gap closer with a way to reliably deal the damage. I gave his Q and W a health cost that directly increases the effectiveness of those abilities so that there is synergy with his infinite health scaling and nerfed the AP ratios slightly to compensate, otherwise those abilities remain the same. His R opens up all sorts of wacky gameplay options. Kairon would be usable as both an AP mid, an AP tank, and a support, and personally I feel such diversity is really good for the game.

======================

So there you have it. Let me know what you think! If you voted yes please help bump the thread up, and if you voted no let me know why!

*Scroll down to see the original unedited suggestions that most of the thread discusses


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Zhico

Senior Member

04-25-2013

Very Interesting, like any champion idea the numbers need work and riot should look at this


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iMFEkOXqcN

Member

04-25-2013

Quote:
Passive, Noxian Promotion: Sion gains a stack of Noxian Promotion every minute he's alive, up to a maximum of 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5. Whenever Sion dies, consumes all stacks of Noxian Promotion to permanently increase his maximum health by the number of stacks consumed multiplied by the number of enemies he's killed since he last died. (Number of stacks correspond to level 1 / 4 / 7 / 10 / 13) (Hidden passive: Sion also grows in size relative to the amount of health gained.)
Can you imagine? 400 CS at 50 minutes in... has never died.
That would be an instant 2k health if he dies lol

going from glass cannon to full-on tank if u die only once and its end game.
numbers can always be adjusted.



oh, and I like the idea of splittin sion into 2 champs


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plasmatorture

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04-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahris Boobs View Post
Can you imagine? 400 CS at 50 minutes in... has never died.
That would be an instant 2k health if he dies lol

going from glass cannon to full-on tank if u die only once and its end game.
numbers can always be adjusted.



oh, and I like the idea of splittin sion into 2 champs
That's true, it may be too much. But I think if the game lasted 50 minutes without a single death that Sion was going to win anyway. I wanted to make it so the longer you go without dying the more hp you get when you return while still retaining the flavor of enemy killing to get the hp... but enemies can shut this down by focusing him early.

Perhaps he should gain a stack of the passive every 2 minutes? That way he has to live for at least 10 minutes to gain 5 health/kill, which for a frontline champion who hurts himself to attack and cast spells seems pretty difficult but probably brings the risk vs reward more in line.

Thanks for the support guys!


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plasmatorture

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04-26-2013

Original Posts/Changelog:
======================
Sion Changelog
-Increased damage on Q
-Restored E's Passive to be his normal Passive
-Restored life gain to his E
-Added minor knockback to his W
-reduced shield amount on W

======================
Original

Passive, Noxian Promotion: Sion gains a stack of Noxian Promotion every minute he's alive, up to a maximum of 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5. Whenever Sion dies, consumes all stacks of Noxian Promotion to permanently increase his maximum health by the number of stacks consumed multiplied by the number of enemies he's killed since he last died. (Number of stacks correspond to level 1 / 4 / 7 / 10 / 13) (Hidden passive: Sion also grows in size relative to the amount of health gained.)

Q, Heavy Blow: Melee skillshot. Sion holds his axe high above his head with both hands and charges for up to 1.5 seconds before slamming it down in front of him. You may recast Heavy Blow while its charging to reorient Sion towards the cursor and immediately release the attack. It deals 30-100 / 50-150 / 70-200 / 90-250 / 110-300 (+ Bonus AD) (+10% Sion's Maximum HP) scaling physical damage in a very short 90* cone. If charged the full duration it also stuns for 1.5 seconds. [Sion will flash from about .75-.9 seconds after charging - if you recast Heavy Blow then, it will do full damage as if you had charged it the full duration. unsure if this adds good gameplay or just makes it needlessly complex]

Cost: 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 health
Cooldown: 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 seconds
Range: 400

W, Ferocious Charge: Sion dashes forward in a line, dealing 60 / 90 / 130 / 170 / 210 (+ Bonus AD) (+10% Sion's Maximum HP) physical damage to each enemy he passes through. He gains a shield that lasts for 10 seconds with life equal to the amount of damage dealt to enemy champions with this ability.

Cost: 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 health
Cooldown: 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 seconds
Range: 600

E, Necromatic Armor: Passive: Sion has a 40% chance to ignore up to 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50 damage each time he is hit by an autoattack, and heals himself for that amount. The damage reduction is calculated before armor and percentage damage reduction benefits are taken into account.
Active: Sion loses the passive part of this ability to gain 25 / 35 / 45 / 55 / 65 bonus attack damage at the cost of 6 / 8 / 10 / 12 / 14 health per attack.

Toggle, Cooldown: 7 / 6 / 5 / 4 / 3 seconds

R, Cannibalism: For 20 seconds, Sion gains 50% / 75% / 100% bonus lifesteal, 10% / 20% / 30% bonus spellvamp, and 50% attack speed. Additionally, Sion's spells and autoattacks will heal surrounding allies for 25% / 37.5% / 50% of the damage dealt.

Cost: 15% current HP
Cooldown: 90 seconds
======================
I feel this retains the overall spirit of Sion's AD focused kit while fixing his issues with not having a gap closer. His stun now has counterplay and adds something unique to the game. His passive may be the wrong move but I was inspired by the quote from his bio: "For Noxus, death is a promotion." The only problem I see is he loses out on his ability to start with an AP build and transition into AD but I don't think that's ever really viable on current Sion anyway. I decided to make this version manaless since I think that synergizes with being a champion with infinite health scaling better.
======================



======================
Kairon Changelog
-Doubled passive for large champs/monsters
-increased health costs of Q and W
-W can now be activated quicker
-E reduced healing amount greatly from both enemy and ally cast
-Reduced duration of silence on ultimate
======================
Kairon Original Post

Passive, Soul Harvest: Kairon permanently increases his maximum health by 1 / 2 / 3 (increasing at 6 and 11) every time he kills an enemy.

Q, Hypnotic Gaze: Kairon's gaze hypnotizes a single enemy, dealing 70 / 125 / 180 / 240 / 300 (+ 70% AP) (+health spent to cast this ability) magic damage and stunning it for 1.5 seconds.

Cost: 100 Mana, 7% Current Health
Cooldown: 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 / 8
Range: 550

W, Death's Caress: Kairon surrounds himself with a shield which absorbs 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 / 300 (+ 70% AP) (+health spent to cast this ability) damage for up to 10 seconds. After 4 seconds, if the shield has not been destroyed, the ability can be cast again to explode and deal 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 / 300 (+ 70% AP) (+health spent to cast this ability) magic damage to surrounding enemies. It will explode automatically after the 10 seconds have passed

Cost: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 Mana. 5% Current Health
Cooldown: 8 seconds after shield expires

E, Essence Transfer: Kairon creates a leash on a target and channels for up to 5 seconds. If the target leaves the range of Kairon's leash, he will stop channeling.
On enemy cast: Deals 40 / 70 / 100 / 130 / 160 (+ 25% AP) magic damage each second and heals Kairon for 70% / 75% / 80% / 85% / 90% of the damage done.
On ally cast: Kairon sacrifices 5% of his current health each second to heal the ally for 100% / 115% / 130% / 145% / 160% of the health lost.

Cost: 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120 mana
Cooldown: 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6
Range: 475
Leash Range: 700

R, Gonna Take You For a Ride: Kairon leaps onto target champion, attaching himself to them for a period of time. During this time Kairon moves where that champion moves, can cast Essence Transfer without channeling and his other spells freely, and can autoattack the attached champion if its an enemy. Kairon may reactivate this ability to end the effect.
On enemy cast: Kairon latches onto an enemy champion for 3 / 4 / 5 seconds, slowing their movespeed by 30% / 40% / 50% and silencing them for the duration.
On ally cast: Kairon latches onto an ally champion for 6 / 8 / 10 seconds, speeding up their movespeed by 20% / 25% / 30%. The shield from Death's Caress will protect both Kairon and the attached allied champion.

Cost: 100 Mana
Cooldown: 60
Leap range: 500
======================
I think this addresses the issues AP Sion users face by giving him a third damage source, plus a gap closer with a way to reliably deal the damage. I gave his Q and W a health cost that directly increases the effectiveness of those abilities so that there is synergy with his infinite health scaling and nerfed the AP ratios slightly to compensate, otherwise those abilities remain the same. His R opens up all sorts of wacky gameplay options. Kairon would be usable as both an AP mid, an AP tank, and a support, and personally I feel such diversity is really good for the game.
======================


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Albireo

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Senior Member

04-26-2013

I mean, why not, more champions, more fun.

But some of your abilities and numbers are plain broken, but well, that can be always tweeked.

Quote:
R, Gonna Take You For a Ride: Kairon leaps onto target champion, attaching himself to them for a period of time. During this time Kairon moves where that champion moves, can cast Essence Transfer without channeling and his other spells freely, and can autoattack the attached champion if its an enemy. Kairon may reactivate this ability to end the effect
Ok, that one sounds fun if there is a Yi in the other team.


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lolinternets

Member

04-26-2013

Only if this song plays during Kairon's ult
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsfhADiaP5E


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Lil B Task Force

Senior Member

04-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmatorture View Post
That's true, it may be too much. But I think if the game lasted 50 minutes without a single death that Sion was going to win anyway. I wanted to make it so the longer you go without dying the more hp you get when you return while still retaining the flavor of enemy killing to get the hp... but enemies can shut this down by focusing him early.

Perhaps he should gain a stack of the passive every 2 minutes? That way he has to live for at least 10 minutes to gain 5 health/kill, which for a frontline champion who hurts himself to attack and cast spells seems pretty difficult but probably brings the risk vs reward more in line.

Thanks for the support guys!
Remember, Riot's champion design is all about luke warmness. Not quite neutral to be neutral, but annoyingly warm enough to still have that feeling.

That being said, you have to make sure your champion doesn't get to penalized for being shut down early, or atleast provide comeback measures. Objectively, do you think he needs an adjustment in this area?


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Silver Raven

Senior Member

04-26-2013

A great idea!

Of course, numbers need tweaking, but I like the possibility of a champion gaining a good chunk of HP each time he dies, but only if he manages his champ wisely enough to take advantage of his passive.

Also, I like the other champ you made, I would only argue to the reason of having original Sion`s Death Caress, which has no relation to an undead Parasite whatsoever.

Except for that, totally in for a splitting of Sion into two champs!


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DERUDERUDERUDERU

Member

04-26-2013

Not as big of a fan of the passive on the new one, seeing as you have to die to get the awards. Possibly make it so that buying a unique consumable will trigger them? Silly concept, I know, but it's a possibility.

Gonna Take You for a Ride is very interesting, reminds me of Lifestealer's ult a little. It'd be pretty disorienting in teamfights and probably wouldn't work that well (imagine him latching on, then getting a penta as the enemy ran back into the team), and is kind of counterproductive to the "easy to tell abilities" that league does. I like it but it doesn't work sadly.


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