Community: "Buff Fiora" / Riot: "Sorry, too busy!"

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OhSavior

Senior Member

04-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by imweasel09 View Post
It's like you've never seen someone competent lane against a fiora. She's garbage, she's really squishy and her passive is so awful it might as well not even be there, her W doesn't block on hit effects. She can't stick to anyone who has an escape, she can't lane against anyone with decent poke and she doesn't even all in as well as most popular top champions. Oh, and you can cancel her ult by walking into a bush.
I've seen Fioras dominate and get shut down. If she is squishy get some health or resistance, that's a no brainer. Not many champs can stick to an enemy that has an escape, so Fiora is not alone there, same with the poke situation. She can't all in as well as others, but that doesn't make her underpowered so I'm not sure why you mentioned it.

I'm really not getting any decent reasons why she needs buffed, just constant exaggerations of how awful her abilities supposedly are.


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imweasel09

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Senior Member

04-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhSavior View Post
I've seen Fioras dominate and get shut down. If she is squishy get some health or resistance, that's a no brainer. Not many champs can stick to an enemy that has an escape, so Fiora is not alone there, same with the poke situation. She can't all in as well as others, but that doesn't make her underpowered so I'm not sure why you mentioned it.

I'm really not getting any decent reasons why she needs buffed, just constant exaggerations of how awful her abilities supposedly are.
Let me spell it out for you in plain english. No matter how you build fiora or what you try and do with her you could do better as a different champion and she can't win a lane without massively outplaying her opponent. Building her bruiser makes her a bad version of other bruisers, building her melee carry flat out doesn't work because ranged carries are better in league. She can't even do a gimmick AP build like trynd or yi, she flat out sucks at everything.


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Abbendi

Senior Member

04-23-2013

Quinn's joke is appropriate. "Who's there" "Fiora who?" "Valor that's mean"


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Betw´xt

Senior Member

04-23-2013

Buff Fiora, GP is further down in trash tier


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Rockman

Senior Member

04-23-2013

You know the best part? Her ult isn't even like Fizz pole or Vlad pool. She can still be hit by ****, she just cant be hit by targeted **** during it. So if i threw a Taric stun and while it's traveling, she ults, it will still stun her. :>


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imweasel09

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Senior Member

04-23-2013

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Originally Posted by RockMan EXE View Post
You know the best part? Her ult isn't even like Fizz pole or Vlad pool. She can still be hit by ****, she just cant be hit by targeted **** during it. So if i threw a Taric stun and while it's traveling, she ults, it will still stun her. :>
True story, I once managed to supress fiora as malz while she was ulting. Eye lasers came out the back of my head and she turned really purple.


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OhSavior

Senior Member

04-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by imweasel09 View Post
Let me spell it out for you in plain english. No matter how you build fiora or what you try and do with her you could do better as a different champion and she can't win a lane without massively outplaying her opponent. Building her bruiser makes her a bad version of other bruisers, building her melee carry flat out doesn't work because ranged carries are better in league. She can't even do a gimmick AP build like trynd or yi, she flat out sucks at everything.
This could seriously go on all night, because none of you want to look at it differently. I'm not saying build her tank or even health based because obviously that would not work. The funniest thing you said was, "No matter how you build fiora or what you try and do with her you could do better as a different champion and she can't win a lane without massively outplaying her opponent." It's funny because you think since there is a need to outplay your opponent and that there are champs better than her she sucks at everything. Since when is having to outplay your opponent a negative thing? That was rhetorical. What you said is so obviously blown out of proportion it's hard to take you seriously. My 12 year old brother does that when he can't beat a level or a boss.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

04-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousogreat View Post
Basically the message we're getting these days. Honestly, Fiora could use a buff.

Improve her passive, make her W more worth it, etc. Just do something.
Overbuff a melee ADC and he will stomp the toplane.
Sure, she is not too strong, but no melee ADC is. They are really hard to balance and that is why Riot doesn't change them as much. They want to find a way to make the role overall better.
Pure buffs till the single champs are strong enough would make all of them OP at that point cause they would stomp every lane in a 1v1 to get the strength to be really good enough for teamfights where they are very vulnerable to CC and burst.

Remember when Tryn was viable in competitive play? He was nearly umbeatable in the lane. Either the enemy wins the trades and can zone him and he can't do anything (what nearly never happened) or he sustained through all the trades and farmed all day long, giving no real chance for counterplay. There is no real stable point betweeen these 2 states.
Same would happen with Yi and Fiora if they were good enough to lane as well as other top laners. AA have no CD and all of them have gap closers. There is no way they would lose 1v1. So they need to have a more ****ty early game to make counterplay possible, cause nobody can do enough that early with CC, burst or teamplay (no team their, not enough burst and a single CC is too short or has a too long CD or the champ has no enough dmg).



I think one way to make melee ADCs better is to reduce the gap closer range to more like 500 range (400 for fioras duoble charge) and at least 8 sec CD (maybe 10).
then make their ults to more of a team fighting skill and not 1v1 rape abilities.
lower AD scalings but more base dmg on skills (Yi's Q is a decent example but with a bit AD scaling and not bonus AD or no scaling) to prevent hyper scaling and ****ty early games. They normally dont have enough pure dmg skills and too long CDs to play tanky bruiser style.

Maybe it would not work, but I think the melee ADC future lies in Trynda and Yi (better said: their kits). They both have the right concepts in some of their skills, but also things that are wrong for a melee ADC.
Fiora on the other hand has no future. Her kit is normally so broken that you have to make her ****ty. 2 gap closers on a low CD, defensive skill, sustain, high base dmg (280 + 1.2 bonus AD on the gap closer), great steroids, refreshable super high AS boost and an ult that makes her untargetable and can pretty much kill most enemies 1v1 if she manages to get to a certain point.

Decent AD scalings in skills is not the right way.
Not scaling sustain is ok (Yi, Trynda and Fiora have it all and that is an important part for making them ok early game and not OP late game).
Gap closers are needed, but you cant give them a way to stick to their targets too easily in a 1v1 without an item (Frozen Mallet or an MS boost).
Increased stats (mainly AD) is ok, but should be more active like on Yi or Trynda (Yi can double it and then loses it for some time and Trynda needs to lose HP).


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imweasel09

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Senior Member

04-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhSavior View Post
This could seriously go on all night, because none of you want to look at it differently. I'm not saying build her tank or even health based because obviously that would not work. The funniest thing you said was, "No matter how you build fiora or what you try and do with her you could do better as a different champion and she can't win a lane without massively outplaying her opponent." It's funny because you think since there is a need to outplay your opponent and that there are champs better than her she sucks at everything. Since when is having to outplay your opponent a negative thing? That was rhetorical. What you said is so obviously blown out of proportion it's hard to take you seriously. My 12 year old brother does that when he can't beat a level or a boss.
I meant that if 2 people are of equal skill level fiora is going to get her head kicked in. It's not a matter of looking at it differently. She has no build, no skill order that makes her worth picking over a different champion. The closest thing she she can do to being useful is go mid to try and destroy squishy AP mids but at that point you may as well pick Kha or Zed and have someone who stays relevant.


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chumbler

Senior Member

04-23-2013

Fiora doesn't need buffs.

She needs to be completely remade. That is, assuming she went through a development process the first time. If not, then "remade" is not the appropriate word so much as "made" is. She is easily the worst champion in the game.