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Hi, I'm talon.

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Linaeus

Senior Member

05-12-2013

Quote:
Deafiler:
http://www.lolking.net/champions/

~36th, according to this.


LoLKing only uses a small portion of data, which means numbers are always skewed. For example, one day, they could compile the small portion of data they look through and say Sion has a 100% win rate or Ahri is 100% pick or ban. Phreak is going off of all the data which means his numbers are accurate.


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AH3roNam3dHawk3

Member

05-12-2013

Quote:
Linaeus:
Phreak is going off of all the data which means his numbers are accurate.



Or hes going off data from just today

Maybe Talon won 3/5 games he was played in NA


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

05-12-2013

Quote:
Flana Scarlet:
This doesn't hold up. Clearly there are a lot of people who think Talon sucks and needs buffs. Either they're whinning about a champion without ever playing him, or he's stronger than most people think. Besides, Riot hasn't commented on popularity yet (that I know of), I'm willing to say he's in a good place.

Let me tell you a story. Vlad was problematic, and Riot decided to nerf him. However Riot messed up and the nerf didn't go through, but showed up in the patchnotes. Everyone then said Vlad is trash tier and shouldn't be played, and his % dropped.

Vlad was never nerfed.

Perception is important.


You've provided pretty much no evidence that my contention is incorrect.

Only a non-sequitur single instance tale about Vlad and presumably his winrate (or pickrate?) dropping.

"Perception" (this is kind of a nebulous term, may refer to something like 'opinion on relative power') can be a factor in who chooses a champion, but obviously not the only contributing factor. It is based on actual things.

You may as well be missing the morale factors of a favorite champion being nerfed and the resulting influence on play performance and who chooses to pick the champion.

Edit: Nerfs are different from "underpowered".


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DrBleck

Senior Member

05-12-2013

The most reasonable thing to say about Talon is that a low pick rate arguably implies something negative about his design, regardless of win rate. In my opinion, having a character be not-any-fun to play as for the first 15 to 20 minutes of the game indicates a poor overall design, regardless of whether or not they're numerically and strategically powerful in any capacity.

I don't believe that Talon needs buffs, but I do think his gameplay is extremely binary (either you hit them with all of your spells and they die, or they survive and you die). And he probably spends his nights with Ashe in Group Therapy For Champions With Terrible Passive Abilities.

There are perhaps more problematic characters that need looking at more than Talon does at the moment (eg. I don't understand why Evelynn was purposely nerfed into a lonely cave on the moon for a year to avoid toxic gameplay, but AP Yi is still allowed to consistently ruin ARAMs for everyone), but I don't think it would hurt to admit that Talon is no longer in tune with the standard of quality that champion design in League of Legends has achieved.


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SouL1ess

Senior Member

05-12-2013

Quote:
UnderworldH4des:
So why do people say he's bad? I see people saying it's because "ARMOR" mid game: "Seekers armguard"....doesn't he usually gets last whisper and black cleaver?

Or is it the fact that bad.....because he's like any other assassin that can do much after he gets fed...;O


Seeker's armguard costs 1120, BC and LW cost 2k+. Brutalizer is countered exactly by armguard.

It's about game-transition and how Talon can be destroyed just in laning phase. He fails hard without a good early game, and without feed/farm he has no teamfight presence.


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Deafiler

Senior Member

05-13-2013

Quote:
SouL1ess:
Seeker's armguard costs 1120, BC and LW cost 2k+. Brutalizer is countered exactly by armguard.

It's about game-transition and how Talon can be destroyed just in laning phase. He fails hard without a good early game, and without feed/farm he has no teamfight presence.

Isn't Brutalizer only 10 Armor Pen? Seeker's Armguard is 30 armor, or 45 at full stacks.


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Chibodee Crocket

Senior Member

05-13-2013

Quote:
Phreak:
Hi, I'm Talon. I have the fifth highest win rate in the game at the moment, but no one's bothered to try me out seriously yet.


Care to show us the numbers. All we have to go on is lolking but you and other rioters have stated it isn't accurate so please show us your internal charts.


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DirgeTheWitch

Senior Member

05-13-2013

Quote:
Phreak:
Hi, I'm Talon. I have the fifth highest win rate in the game at the moment, but no one's bothered to try me out seriously yet.


Provide evidence, because every single source the community has available to it tells us that you're wrong.


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AH3roNam3dHawk3

Member

05-13-2013

Quote:
DirgeTheWitch:
Provide evidence, because every single source the community has available to it tells us that you're wrong.


Nope just gonna have to sit here, wait for the Koreans to give up on using him as a Zed replacement and wait another 6 months for 10 base damage on his W


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DementedLord

Senior Member

05-13-2013

Quote:
Deafiler:
Isn't Brutalizer only 10 Armor Pen? Seeker's Armguard is 30 armor, or 45 at full stacks.


Brutalizer is more expensive too.