Hi, I'm talon.

First Riot Post
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AngryFlames

Senior Member

04-21-2013

riot bumpers


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Insoy

Senior Member

04-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahki View Post
I'm just explaining why he isn't used in tournaments. Think about it from an organised teams perspective, Talon is very good at laning against AP mids, he's a counter to them, he's horrendous at laning against anything else though. So what if they put say, a Darius there? Well if it's Zed or Kha they shrug, not the lane they'd want but they both have the tools to lane against a Darius without getting smashed. If they get hooked they both have escapes, they both have long ranged farming tools, they're fine.

What is Talon gets matched against Darius? You're pretty much boned. What if Talon gets hooked? Better hope your ult or flash is up otherwise you're dead, son. Against champions who don't give a **** about Talons burst he is completely helpless due to his reliance on all in's and keeping his lane opponent afraid of his burst damage.

It's all well and good that he's good in that one specific type of matchup, but he's absolutely awful at laning against anything alse and thats an issue because it massively restricts him. The fact that his laning power is completely negated is the opposing team lane swaps a bruiser there kind of makes him worthless in tournament play when there are organised teams, because they simply lane swap and make sure that Talon doesn't get the matchup he requires to be able to succeed in his lane, and when that happens Talons power as a champion is completely gone. Think about it, Alex Ich picks Kassadin a lot in LCS, how come nobody has countered with Talon even though Talon is one of the strongest counters for Kassadin? Because Gambit would simply shift their lanes around and make sure that matchup never happens, making the pick completely worthless.

Zed and Kha don't care as much about lane swaps, even if they're being played mid for the same reason they thrive in top lane. They have the tools to handle it, they're more versatile, sending a bruiser to face them doesn't shut them down anywhere near as hard as it does to Talon. Thats his issue. I'm not saying Talon needs to be able to played top because I really want to play some toplane Talon, I'm saying that the same reason he can't be played there (Because he will get reamed by bruisers) is the same reason he's one of 30 odd champs who havn't been picked in LCS, and whats holding him back from being a genuinely strong pick instead of a niche counterpick.

Whats the answer? Make Talon able to lane more safely against champions other than APs. He doesn't need to dominate them, just be able to actually farm against them without getting reamed, just like Zed and Kha can. I think this can be done without a rework or even any damage buffs, it mostly comes down to his mana costs. I think if the mana cost of his Rake and Q were decreased then he could potentially fare a lot better in other matchups, you could even increase the mana costs of his E and ult to compensate, making sure that the mana cost of his all ins remain the same while giving him a boost to his ability to farm safely in lane, not even so much a buff but a power redistribution. Once this happens guess what? Talon will be picked in tourneys because he IS really good at assassinating targets, the only thing holding him back is his complete inability to lane against anything he can't burst down.

Oh yeah this is also why people can do quite well in solo q with him, rarely will you see teams with the foresight to laneswap bad matchups to shut Talon down so you can feed off all those Lux's and Brands to your hearts content. His weaknesses generally don't matter as much so long as you can get the midlane, all the same I think they're weaknesses that need to be addressed to really make him more than just a niche counterpick for solo q. I don't see why Talon players should have to settle with only ever being able to mid because APs are the only champs Talon stands a chance against while Zed and Kha continue to be viable mid, top and jungle, being more all round more versatile while having just as much ability to assassinate targets, thats bollocks.

Oh yeah and change his passive because it blows ass.
Every single thing you ever pointed out, I've proven wrong from time to time. It was worse for me when I had no S3 Black cleaver to reduce armor. There's two things I'd probably agree with you is that he can't jungle (fast enough) nor is he used in a tourney but lane swapping isn't an issue to me nor is anything else ever going to be one as long as you manage things right.


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Insoy

Senior Member

04-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ask Talon View Post
Remind me to add you in game...

With Talon you get to get creative on how you approach your targets and how you go about it. Personally, I'll wait for a teamfight to be established and come in 5-10 seconds after it's been initiated.

Plenty of people think Talon is trash, and I do love to prove them wrong.
Oh man, it's not even a smile it's more like this since S1 all the time for me :3


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Exsanguinated

Member

04-21-2013

I agree even though I haven't played Talon... but if I take my AS AP AD Hybrid Gatling Gun Lulu top lane and poop on Talon 5-0... either I have massive skillz, or he really does lack some jack.


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Insoy

Senior Member

04-21-2013

back in S2 my deaths were :O


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Clarence

Member

04-21-2013

Zed and Kha are better


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Insoy

Senior Member

04-21-2013

Dropping random pics now


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Iifa

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Senior Member

04-21-2013

his level 6 burst does around 700 damage.

comparably, akali does around 1100 and zed's does ~1050

Lux outdamages him in one burst, as does LeBlanc, Syndra, and Annie.

Why can't he get some buffs?