@Morello, Shyvana players are dying to know RIOT has any plans for her.

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Prefix

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Master Recruiter

04-24-2013

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Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
Please for the love of god tell me you're putting an AP ratio on her W. Hearing that you're buffing the AP ratio on E would be a pleasant bonus.

That would be OP and change her build completely.

I think needing a frozen on her isn't too unreasonable but requiring a ryla for a jungle is stupid.


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chumbler

Senior Member

04-24-2013

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Originally Posted by Killerz297 View Post
That would be OP and change her build completely.

I think needing a frozen on her isn't too unreasonable but requiring a ryla for a jungle is stupid.
Who said anything about rylai's being required? It would just be an option. Putting an AP ratio on her W opens up her itemization options by a lot, and that's her main problem.


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Katrisa

Senior Member

04-24-2013

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Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
A lot of our changes will be focused on Flame Breath and Dragon's Descent being more iconic and functional.
Thank you! From what I'm reading here you guys get the problem. She feels ok for the first few clears but as the game gets level 6+ her ult and E just don't function quite as well as they sound on paper. She's not bad as you mention, but some of the other more popular junglers have more OOMFF right now with thier popups, cc, dives, etc.

As others have mentioned I LOVE her kill everything in sight feel. Unfortunately because her ult can be blocked and her breath lacks omph she often falls short of where she should be.

Also her dragon form is way to freaking SLOW. I can't count the number of times where immediately after diving with dragon form I get kited by the ADC because of the slower movement. I liberally WANT to drop dragonform sometimes to finish these buggers off. And this is a terrible feeling and design flaw.


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Pokeprof

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Senior Member

04-24-2013

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Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Running 9/21 or 2/7/21 with Lifesteal Quints, AD Reds, Armor Yellows and MR Blues i'm consistently returning to my wraiths for a 2nd pass by 3:15-3:20. While this slows me to hitting Level 4 by needing to run to Wolves (the only camp available at this point), i'm still able to at -least- get to another wraith clear due to Burnout's insane wraith control and base/get Razor. It only gets sillier from there as you twin bite + razor proc the large monsters and burnout finishes the rest, making your jungling from that point forward a breeze. I'd say she's still on the upper-end of clears.

When i say early/mid, i'm specifically referring to the pre-25m point in the game. While the changes i'm referring to are designed to smooth the transition into the later game, they still reinforce her strong jungling capacity. Shyvana's identity is that of a potent mixed-damage fighter with a strength in farming the jungle - both hers and her opponents. Part of this identity is that she manages to do it without built-in sustain or CC, which actually means (compared to some of our other fighters) it's much easier to toss in more damage/speed and make you feel like a speed-tanky-mega-punchin' dragon-lady.

tl;dr 2.0 - Jungle clear getting tangentally buffed, but changes targetted at late-game transitioning. I think you guys will like the change to her ult ;D
Curious, Scarizard, about the building of a Razor. I, personally, never care for it particularly because I enjoy Shyvana's use of the Spirit of the Elder Lizards burn mechanic on her speed boost. It just helps out her damage so well and makes her hurt compared to grabbing Wriggles which only help her out in a jungle.

That said, I do think that mastery/rune build might help, so I'm going to try it out once I can afford the Life Steal runes.


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chumbler

Senior Member

04-24-2013

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Originally Posted by Pokeprof View Post
Curious, Scarizard, about the building of a Razor. I, personally, never care for it particularly because I enjoy Shyvana's use of the Spirit of the Elder Lizards burn mechanic on her speed boost. It just helps out her damage so well and makes her hurt compared to grabbing Wriggles which only help her out in a jungle.

That said, I do think that mastery/rune build might help, so I'm going to try it out once I can afford the Life Steal runes.
If you're really concerned with early game health, health regen quints are probably better than lifesteal quints. Lifesteal quints of course scale better into late game, though.


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RunRunBunnyRun

Member

04-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
A Wild Scarizard appears!

Shyvana is currently a very dominant early/mid-game jungler who's having a hard time transitioning late-game. Without going deeply into details on the changes we're discussing, a lot of our changes will be focused on Flame Breath and Dragon's Descent being more iconic and functional. We'll talk more later on down the patch cycle - i won't lock Live Design down for a release of these buffs (Based on testing, the scope of this could potentially increase and require more testing coverage) but it's a priority. I'm confident we can get her to a good state without just 'BUFF ALL THE NUMBERS!' - she's not the best, but she's by no means in a terrible state.

tl;dr Soon, not soonTM.
Awesome reply! She just need some love fix on some of her skills. Nothing major, glad you guys are looking at her though. And I have NO problem in the jungle even without lifesteal runes. I use speed quints and atck speed reds and the rest are standard 9/21 mastery with little changes based on the opposing champs.


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copperpoint

Senior Member

04-25-2013

I am soooo glad Riot at least thinks about her.
Most people who actually play her agree that she isnt UP, by no means, but she still got weaker without the intent to nerf her + She has to pick her opponents really carefully in Toplane.+ She has a rather frustrating playstile.

Her R can easily be improved just by some number adjustments and maybe some Tenacity bonus/imune to CC in jump or stuff like that.

Her E is what worrys me, but I am curious to see what Riot comes up with on this problem.


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Critmaster Garen

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Senior Member

04-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
A Wild Scarizard appears!

Shyvana is currently a very dominant early/mid-game jungler who's having a hard time transitioning late-game. Without going deeply into details on the changes we're discussing, a lot of our changes will be focused on Flame Breath and Dragon's Descent being more iconic and functional. We'll talk more later on down the patch cycle - i won't lock Live Design down for a release of these buffs (Based on testing, the scope of this could potentially increase and require more testing coverage) but it's a priority. I'm confident we can get her to a good state without just 'BUFF ALL THE NUMBERS!' - she's not the best, but she's by no means in a terrible state.

tl;dr Soon, not soonTM.
so in short, youre going to do the same with her, as you did with garen.

wreck her early game, to give her a lategame and then later nerf her early and lategame, when she becomes a viable, even if still not optimal choice. but stomps low ranking games.


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daves3hd

Senior Member

04-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Running 9/21 or 2/7/21 with Lifesteal Quints, AD Reds, Armor Yellows and MR Blues i'm consistently returning to my wraiths for a 2nd pass by 3:15-3:20. While this slows me to hitting Level 4 by needing to run to Wolves (the only camp available at this point), i'm still able to at -least- get to another wraith clear due to Burnout's insane wraith control and base/get Razor. It only gets sillier from there as you twin bite + razor proc the large monsters and burnout finishes the rest, making your jungling from that point forward a breeze. I'd say she's still on the upper-end of clears.

When i say early/mid, i'm specifically referring to the pre-25m point in the game. While the changes i'm referring to are designed to smooth the transition into the later game, they still reinforce her strong jungling capacity. Shyvana's identity is that of a potent mixed-damage fighter with a strength in farming the jungle - both hers and her opponents. Part of this identity is that she manages to do it without built-in sustain or CC, which actually means (compared to some of our other fighters) it's much easier to toss in more damage/speed and make you feel like a speed-tanky-mega-punchin' dragon-lady.

tl;dr 2.0 - Jungle clear getting tangentally buffed, but changes targetted at late-game transitioning. I think you guys will like the change to her ult ;D
Who there, don't jump the pokeball just jet...

Why is shyvana jungle only being talked about? On release she used to be a decent laner but due (mostly) item and meta changes she became unusable in s2 and just hasn't made a return in s3..... What's being done top-lane shyvana? Surely jungle is fun but I want my baby back on top as well. She's always been this great brawler, that should also make her a great top-laner. (jarvan, vi, jax for example)


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Mogs01gt

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Senior Member

04-25-2013

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Originally Posted by pokenerd View Post
I disagree. i think he knows where shyvana is strongest and weakest, and is trying to buff her accordingly. Tbh, shyvana between level 6 and 25 minutes has the fastest clear time in the game, while being ridiculously tanky, and dealing a ****tonne of damage in teamfights. Her problem is her pre-6 clear and her irrelevance late game (after 25-30 minutes).But to be honest, even junglers like J4, Xin, Hecarim, Amumu and such get really low pre-6, making me think that the 1-6 clear is more a problem of the jungle creeps being too tanky too early than a problem with shyvana. Once you get wriggles on her (if you can be bothered spending the 900g) e-auto-q will instagib the big wraith/wolf/golumn, making her clear camps in literally 2 seconds, taking no damage in the process. She farms so fast she spends too much time waiting for camps to respawn, and is forced to lane-tax (bad for teammates) or invade (risky as you have to take exhaust to zone carries late game). More mobility would help her with this aspect of it, allowing her to farm both jungles, and i would like to think that this is where the tangential changes are aimed at. Her irrelevance late game is determined by how much farm she has but ultimately because she has no cc and doesn't have the opportunity or scaling to become threatening enough. more mobility mid game = more farm = better late game, which will alleviate some of the problems.
Its a simple fix really, give her all AP scaling abilities.