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The True Glass Cannon Kassadin: Stacking AP Like It's Your Birthday

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JunkRamen

Senior Member

12-07-2009

Quote:
Sniperness:
Actually, my version ends up with about double the AP that The Senate's guide has. Chalice and Boots (he uses mobility) don't give you an damage at all so I'm confused what you mean by this. Also, if you carefully read each items description, each of them grants you massive stacks of AP in some way. Tear of the Goddess upgrades to Archangel's Staff end game in which 2% of your max mana is converted into AP. (2500*0.02) That nets you an additional 50 AP on top of the 40 the item in and of itself grants you. Then we factor in Zhonya's + 100 AP and it's passive effect which gives 25% on top of all your existing AP. Also, I originally planned this guide for the original soulstealer. For simplicity's sake lets assume you get the new soulstealer and sit at a stack of around 10..
What I'm saying is that the AP doesn't make up for the additional nuke that DFG gives. However another look at your numbers does make your build look at lot stronger. I'll try it out.

[EDIT]: I'm thinking maybe a hybrid of sorts could be done: Tears/Boots/DFG/(upgrade to Archangel)/start working on Zhonyas/Rylai's/Void Staff. Mejai is pretty unreliable, but a careful Kassadin might just be the best candidate for using it. Hmm...


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AIM7Sparrow

Senior Member

12-07-2009

Sounds good. I personally don't usually get boots until late game since riftwalk takes care of your mobility needs. I think spending the money on AP or mana is better than on speed. See my guide at the end of the items section for more detail on this.


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JunkRamen

Senior Member

12-08-2009

I went: Tears/Mobility/Mejai/DFG/Archangel in a recent game. Lost and was really squishy (didn't help they had Ashe/Trynd) but I like it. Tears really does bring up the slack and unlike Chalice, it upgrades into a pretty good AP item. Mejai as a pure AP boost is underrated after the change... it's not the monster it used to be, but point per AP it's still one of the best boosts in the game, especially for someone with the escapability that Kassadin has. IMO, Cleanse is a must. After Archangel you're getting into the late game and you'd probably want to go for a Banshee's or Rylai's over a Zhonya's if they have any sort of ranged carry.

It's hard to give up the earlier DFG though. Tears is more expensive than chalice which makes the early game even tougher on weak low lvl Kassadin and I lost a kill at least going Mejai before DFG.


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AIM7Sparrow

Senior Member

12-08-2009

I've actually seriously think stacking blasting wands might be a very viable option. After you get your tear, get 3 blasting wands, then a mana ring, then upgrade into zhonya's. you'll have 120 ap alone just from the blasting wands and an additional 40 at least from runes by the time you throw out the extra 2k chunk of gold to finish the zhonyas. excluding the tear of the goddess (since it's the first item I get regardless of any build), that brings your total to 2580 for 120 ap, and then another 1975 to bring it up to 200. (+20 from finishing zhonya's, +20 more from runes (leveling up), x1.25 from zhonya's passive) The 120 AP alone nearly doubles deathfire for the same cost and throwing out just 2k more gold boosts you an additional 80 AP while providing you with 500 mana AND increasing the AP you get from all future purchases.

And yes, deathfire does give you the nuke but it's only against one target and on a 150 second cooldown. 55 extra ap translates to an extra 66 AoE damage + 39 target damage all on a 9 second cooldown max. the numbers obviously favor not getting deathfire in terms of stable damage output.


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JunkRamen

Senior Member

12-08-2009

Quote:
Sniperness:
I've actually seriously think stacking blasting wands might be a very viable option. After you get your tear, get 3 blasting wands, then a mana ring, then upgrade into zhonya's. you'll have 120 ap alone just from the blasting wands and an additional 40 at least from runes by the time you throw out the extra 2k chunk of gold to finish the zhonyas. excluding the tear of the goddess (since it's the first item I get regardless of any build), that brings your total to 2580 for 120 ap, and then another 1975 to bring it up to 200. (+20 from finishing zhonya's, +20 more from runes (leveling up), x1.25 from zhonya's passive) The 120 AP alone nearly doubles deathfire for the same cost and throwing out just 2k more gold boosts you an additional 80 AP while providing you with 500 mana AND increasing the AP you get from all future purchases.

And yes, deathfire does give you the nuke but it's only against one target and on a 150 second cooldown. 55 extra ap translates to an extra 66 AoE damage + 39 target damage all on a 9 second cooldown max. the numbers obviously favor not getting deathfire in terms of stable damage output.
Stable output isn't really the name of the game for Kassadin though. People fear him for his initial burst and his ability to chase afterwards. Landing a 25% hp hit as your first spell really gets you the kills. Btw it's a one minute CD.


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AIM7Sparrow

Senior Member

12-08-2009

Quote:
JunkRamen:
I went: Tears/Mobility/Mejai/DFG/Archangel in a recent game. Lost and was really squishy (didn't help they had Ashe/Trynd) but I like it. Tears really does bring up the slack and unlike Chalice, it upgrades into a pretty good AP item. Mejai as a pure AP boost is underrated after the change... it's not the monster it used to be, but point per AP it's still one of the best boosts in the game, especially for someone with the escapability that Kassadin has. IMO, Cleanse is a must. After Archangel you're getting into the late game and you'd probably want to go for a Banshee's or Rylai's over a Zhonya's if they have any sort of ranged carry.


Firstly, I think you're wasting money on boots of mobility. I know The Senate recommends it but try a game without buying any boots at all during the early stages. It sounds counter intuitive but Kassadin's naturally fast MS as well as riftwalk takes care of all his mobility needs. Cleanse absolutely is a must. Clease -> Riftwalk is nearly foolproof. And I agree with Mejai's. I know it got nerfed but as you mentioned, Kassadin's escaping prowesses make it extremely viable on him. If anything, get off a force pulse and null sphere, run away and net the assists. Slow but steady and extremely safe. Banshee's is a very situational item. Since it provides no AP it goes against what my build aims to accomplish. Remember I'm focusing on hit and run tactics. You shouldn't be sticking around long enough or initiating fights to worry about taking the stuns and silences. Rylai's eh. Only if the game ends up being 45+ minutes. Zhonya's for sure before any of those. I actually get it before archangel's.


Quote:
JunkRamen:

It's hard to give up the earlier DFG though. Tears is more expensive than chalice which makes the early game even tougher on weak low lvl Kassadin and I lost a kill at least going Mejai before DFG.


Tears is actually super easy to get. Start with Sapphire Crystal and 2 HP pots. You'll be able to stay in the lane even with harass and farm with Null Sphere. Don't harass with it! At 580 gold, port to town and you'll have your tear. Yay! Also, you're worried about how tough the early game is on kassadin. Not buying shoes helps you out with this problem. Why waste 1000 gold on mobility when you have riftwalk and can put the money into a super early soulstealer? Also, see my above post for the DFG vs. Blasting Wands/Zhonya's ring issue.


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AIM7Sparrow

Senior Member

12-08-2009

Quote:
JunkRamen:
Stable output isn't really the name of the game for Kassadin though. People fear him for his initial burst and his ability to chase afterwards. Landing a 25% hp hit as your first spell really gets you the kills. Btw it's a one minute CD.


agreed but you can't expect to one hit combo kill everyone, even end game. also, if you read my guide, I focus on repeatedly dealing damage through hit-and-retreating tactics. in a team fight you would launch your combo and run away. as soon as your pulse is back up you do the same thing. rinse and repeat. DFG hurts this tactic, which no other character in the game can make use of as well as Kassadin can. so yes, while he is a burst damager, he needs to have stable output as well in terms of high AP stats, not item effects running on CD's. and again, dfg is a one target shot, your force pulse and riftwalk are spammable and area of effect.


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JunkRamen

Senior Member

12-08-2009

It's hard to give up Boots of Mobility when you're going for midgame ganks, but I'll try it out.

What I see here is that we play Kassadin differently. Hit and run vs unload everything and chase. I think next game I will follow your build, item to item and try to play the way you describe instead of trying to make up for things here and there. It'll be a good learning experience.

And yeah, my problem with getting Tears is that I save to buy boots + Tears early on, which can be hard against certain lanes.

Don't take any offense to what I'm saying here, I've enjoyed both guides very much and I just had a little bias going towards yours having read The Senate's first. If you see his thread, you'll see me questioning him too


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AIM7Sparrow

Senior Member

12-08-2009

I always enjoy an intellectual, friendly debate. No offense taken whatsoever. And I actually commented on my build about Senates (and other's) following the traditional Catalyst -> Rod of Ages build. I've tried it out personally and it does indeed work well.

What it comes down to at the end of the game is what you believe the true role of your character is. No one in their right mind would go carry DPS on morganna or AP build for Trynd. I believe that Kassadin's true purpose is to deal as much damage as he truly can with his burst combo and then do it again, shortly after, since his cooldowns are all so incredibly low. That being said, there are two ways of being able to accomplish this. AP for the damage, and mana for the repetitions. Thus, I have designed this build to be able to do just that. It takes some getting used to and it's different from almost every other champion in the game, but I feel like that's Kassadin's true calling.


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AIM7Sparrow

Senior Member

12-08-2009

fail guides receiving more attention than carefully analyzed ones ftw. bump -_-