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Are tanks too tanky?

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Fluffy1

Senior Member

11-09-2010

combine such rediculious defense with stupidity noob escape of flash and any game involving 3 or more tanky heroes is guarenteed to last 45+ minutes, they will just never die, wait for respawn times to get really long then ace your team(who are probally underfarmed from lack of kills) and win....zero fun.

i dont mind them taking forver to kill but when they can out burst a caster who has to choose between survival and AP then whats the point of playing a caster(especially since magic resist is WAY to effective vs them) rammus and amunu are probably the only old school tank i see these days, havent seen many cho's and alistars around anymore.


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Nhan Fiction

Senior Member

11-09-2010

There are simply not enough means of getting past crazy amounts of survivability. This is largely due to how the defensive items work in this game versus the anti-defense items. You can get way more armor and magic resistance than you can trying to stack all of the reduction/penetration items you can buy. And because the popular tanks also do a lot of damage, the tanks therefore can run amok and dominate in games.


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Die Nacht

Senior Member

11-09-2010

The your problem is not that Tanks are tanky (that is actually a very funny phrase) but that they are dealing too much damage.

I can see that. I'm a tank player and I have to say that I love Ali (because of what you said. He is a pure tank, no damage). However, Ali is overshadowed by the tanks who can tank AND do damage (Shen, Galio, Nunu and even Amumu).

I don't think it can be fixed though. That would require remaking all of those champs and thus it would require remaking everyone else (every change to the game, changes the whole game by small amounts). All they can do is buff Ali so he is like the other tanks.


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Qreate

Member

11-09-2010

Quote:
noodle0117:
I wonder why HoN/Dota never had the unkillable tank problem...

Farmed carry could rip through farmed squishy and tank alike, despite a lack of % based items (no madreds or deathfires in the game).


It's because in HoN and DoTA there were "carries." In LoL we call them carries but they aren't really carries, they are simply the person who does the most damage on the team most of the time. Now in DoTA/HoN a farmed carry could single handedly take out the whole team.


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Private Riem

Senior Member

11-09-2010

Make tanks unable to kill anybody 1vs1 = nobody attacks the tanks anymore.
If tanks aren't able to be a treat, even small, whats the point? The entire team will ignore you.

As for Malphite being OP? ARE YOU NUCKING FUTS?


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ToastANDeath

Senior Member

11-09-2010

Are tanks too tanky? Not really.
Are they too damagey in addition to their tankyness? Yes.

That's why I'm going to buy Morde. I can solo 3 people and kill them all! No joke.

Honestly if you want to see the problem with the current tank situation, just go play a Twisted Treeline match. Every enemy team I queue against has Morde/X/X and those X's are any combination of the following: Garen, Mundo, Shen, Garen, Cho'Gath, Rammus, Garen. Having not played TT since summoner level ~5 (now 30) I decided to try my luck with some carries/hard laners (ie. not tanks) and got owned hard. Finally I played a character who is tanky and ended up winning. There's just no room for anything else there but tanks in TT as well as SR now.

As a side note, my friend's brother likes to queue with his friends and ALL 5 of them choose tanks/tanky characters, and Fortify. They haven't lost a single game yet, but they're apparently fairly long games.


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Netch

Member

11-09-2010

Quote:
Sir Tillou:
Tanks shouldn't be allowed to do over half the damage of dps or mages. Period. They are meant to take the hits and CC the other team, not to kill.


thats kinda why i like amumu where he is at right now he is able to stun but not do much damage unless you stack sunfires or throw some ap into his build but other than that his only real damage is his e spin attack


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ToastANDeath

Senior Member

11-09-2010

Quote:
Make tanks unable to kill anybody 1vs1 = nobody attacks the tanks anymore.


I'm not sure if a character should ever be balanced around the fact that it should inherently kill anybody 1v1; if this somehow were the case, I think it's fair to say that the tanks should clearly have to fight that person a very, very long time before they die. Tanks shouldn't be running around assassinating people.

I don't think tanks should be considered from the standpoint of: can they kill people well? But more like: can they tank a whole team very well and disrupt spells, create annoyances that affect the enemy teams focusing skills, or keep their teamates alive well?


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Private Riem

Senior Member

11-09-2010

Quote:
ToastANDeath:
Are tanks too tanky? Not really.
Are they too damagey in addition to their tankyness? Yes.

That's why I'm going to buy Morde. I can solo 3 people and kill them all! No joke.

Honestly if you want to see the problem with the current tank situation, just go play a Twisted Treeline match. Every enemy team I queue against has Morde/X/X and those X's are any combination of the following: Garen, Mundo, Shen, Garen, Cho'Gath, Rammus, Garen. Having not played TT since summoner level ~5 (now 30) I decided to try my luck with some carries/hard laners (ie. not tanks) and got owned hard. Finally I played a character who is tanky and ended up winning. There's just no room for anything else there but tanks in TT as well as SR now.

As a side note, my friend's brother likes to queue with his friends and ALL 5 of them choose tanks/tanky characters, and Fortify. They haven't lost a single game yet, but they're apparently fairly long games.


What you're talking about is not tanks being strong, its OP chars being OP.


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Galgus

Senior Member

11-09-2010

The tank is kind of meant to take a beating from the whole enemy team, and while tank durability can scale well their damage often scales far worse into late game than damage oriented champions.

Plus Last Whisper, Madred's Bloodrazor, and Void Staff exist to help with armor, health, and magic resistance stacking.

Heh, I mainly play Alistar: but currently I think he is lacking in terms of strength compared to other champions.

I think its a bit over simplistic to say tanks should never do decent damage, but some tanks can pull off doing too much at once.

(Like Shen. Bursty, teleporting, taunting, tanking, and with some flee/ chase utility.)

As Alistar, I often use a tank/AP build, which balances scaling my damage better into late game with tank survivability- but then again Alistar is one of the least item reliant champions.


You have to look at tanks on an individual basis, and tanks with weak CC, or "off-tanks" often have more damage than true tanks to make up for it: like Mundo and Mordekaiser.


Also, if a tank pours all his money into items to make him hard to kill, he should not be able to be killed quickly.