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Brilliant suggestion to counter TANKYDPS

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LSOreli

Senior Member

11-08-2010

Quote:
Admiral Knox:
Well they're here to stay, as we've never seen Riot just rip a champion out of the game before. To solve the current issue, we can't hope for a rework of each problem character. Alistar is a real tank and he isn't played. Unless all are removed but him and a few others, I feel this is the only way to go about things.


I agree, Alistar is a perfect example of what a tank should be. No ones ever QQd about alistars damage, except in it being too low. And they only do this because all of the other tanks do ridiculous damage.


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Admiral Knox

Senior Member

11-09-2010

So most people agree that full-on tanks are dealing too much damage and that traditional glass cannon roles are really, really hurting.

I would like to hear if this looks like a possible solution or not.


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ChickenNoodo

Member

11-09-2010

Frunk said it best:

Quote:
Frunk:
Seems more sensible to just do this:

When you pick an item it either has offense or defense, not both. Sunfire cape as an example gives you a load of health/armor at the same time it gives you the magical damage aura.


Too many of the items in this game give you both survivability AND Offensive power. It wouldn't be such a problem if one of the two attributes was highly favoured in a given item, but more times than not you're getting a butt load of AR/MR/HP along side a hefty amount of offensive stats (AP included).

The best fix would be to nerf one of the two sides (ex. remove armor and item counterpart from recipe, make the recipe itself slightly more expensive); this forces champions to have to choose between survivability items and dps items.

Unfortunately, though, doing this drastically increases the learning curve for newer players as the roles of each character are not very valued in casual game play.


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Ryncwind

Senior Member

11-09-2010

Quote:
Admiral Knox:
Quite constructive, eh? Care to elaborate on why this metagame should linger?


Lingering metagame is better than a terribly imbalanced one. (which I'm not saying that this will create imbalance, but it could have unforeseen consequences)

Also, this would drive less people to play tanks.


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SleveX

Junior Member

11-09-2010

So.... ill just post both my posts here, too, just to make a different suggestion: from the threat:http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=333703&page=4


I think there need to be a difference between high-life dmg dealers (ad or ap) and actual tanks.

Tanks are champs that can focus the damage on themselves in order to prevent their allies from it. Now, to be fair, there is a thin line between a tank and a supporter/ dmg dealer with plenty life. as to this question (and it not being soluted yet), i dont want to mention any champs in particular but only say tanks.

does "the tank" deal too much dmg?
id say no, because in early game (1-6) tanks eigher go life or dmg. tanks that go life (shield) dont deal too much dmg early game right? now the problem is, they dont do low dmg eigher, they most likely do as much dmg as other champs taking no-dmg-items (like mana/mreg/lreg/life/boots)
and here is the problem:
a lvl 18 carry champ has around 115 attack dmg with no runes, masteries or items at all.
a lvl 18 tank champ has around 117 attack dmg with eigher.

WAIT! what? youll might say now.
i said i would not referr to any champ in particular. heres the exeption: alistar the total tank, that deals no dmg at all and so on and so on. second stats are alistars, first are tryndameres. wed all agree tryn is carry and high dps.

now there is a stats called attack speed: tryn 1.116 at 18, ali ~0.75 at 18. ok now, that makes a difference you might say. but does it really? 840g between both stats.

now the other way around: tryn: 2127 health at 18, ali: 2406 at 18
279 health difference, or at around 820g.

so if stats compared, these both champs are the same

now it comes to abilities: tryn: heal, aoe cc, "cone", godmode
alistar: aoe cc, "cone" with cc, aoe heal, godmode
whats the exact matchmaking difference about that, nobody can say. but sure is, these abilities are not THAT different.

now, what would happen if id play tryn on tank and alistar on dmg? as both being autohitters most the time (whirl at tryn slight xtra, contra stun and knockback at alistar + lower ulti cd and higher duration).

did anyone try this to bring hard facts?

if not, in theory alistar would deal as much dmg as tryndamere (considering most tryns go on crit build regardless of the passive).

so its the items that make a champ tanks or carry, then the abilities, then runes and masteries then the champ stats itself.

So if the items buyed by a champ can eigher make him carry or tank (and pretty much nothing else xept taunt), riot would have to give a makeover to the items. or thats what most people would suggest. but thats simply wrong because the buffed/nerfed items would affact all champs not just one category. so there has to be a change in something no champ can archieve or change ingame: the base stats.

take a simple stat as movement speed. remember how in old times tanks were strong, high, fat, slow?
make them slow again, eigher trough not having escaping tools like morde, or simply nerf their movement speed.

and if anyone now starts to cry: omg! that would pwn me as a tank when all my team is dead and im focussed, i have no cance to run away!

right! you wouldnt so get your team staying alive or backing off soon if a fight seems to be lost.
teams would have to walk together more, or the tank fals behind, leaving the rest of the team getting facepalmed by enemy team.

2nd suggestion: buff the base and +lvl stats compared to the item stats.
now that would rather be a complete gameplay-makeover wouldnt it?
i tell you why: if the stats and not the items were the most interesting part in being tank or carry, in lategame even a 78-0 game could be lost because of the only tiny advantage through items of team 1.
to prevent that, riot could insert some mechanic debuffing champs that die too often in a short time (time based debuff) or that have a really bad statistic.

little example: champ 1 is a lvl 18 tryndamere and has stats of 11-3-5. (we take the "old" stats)
he has 115ad at 1.116 as. he has no debuffs
champ 2 is a tryndamere lvl 18 with 0-6-7.

now imagine the debuff would last about...... 3 minutes (after resurrection). lets say -10% ad and as. champ 2 has 3 stacks. he has 80.5 ad and 0.7812 as.

or: the buff depends on how much kills and assists you get compared to your deaths. lets say 2 assists equal 1 death and 1 kill equals 1 death (for tryndamere as carry only). now each number is a amount of %... lets say 5% just for math issues.

champ1: 11*5=55 -3*5= 40 +5*2,5= +52,5% which would be added to the stats. (115+52,5% ad, etc.)
champ2: 0*5=0 -6*5=-30+7*2,5= -12.5% (115-12.5%)

said short: champs that die too much suck, until they eigher assist or kill someone

that would be my final suggestion:

buff base stats
nerf items compared to base stats
debuff champs that die often or dont kill/assist anything
debuff "tanks" movement speed and getaway abilities


last to be said: buff towers lategame its just hilarious how every champ that exists can towerdive nowadays even the casters.
suggestion:
towers buffed by time
towers buffed by champ lvls overall (10 champs lvl 18= overall lvl 180= towers buffed base amount)

so far thx for reading, slevex

(ah and sry for the bad english, im from germany , thx)


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