Malzahar Ult Rework (Warwick too)

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Earl of Madness

Senior Member

04-14-2013

In ARAM in my experience no one builds QSS so that is not usually a problem and to respond to comments about not focusing whoever builds QSS, often times that is tanks. Melee ADC and Ranged ADC that know what they are doing will build the item and even some bruisers will build the item. Ulting an Olaf or GP is also out of the question. That does leave the enemy mage or assassin if you manage to lock them down. however with the ability to interupt that ultimate if the enemy pays attention they will shut it down. His ult is very good 1v1 what i'm saying is that he needs to be able to teamfight with the thing because its very difficult to play it properly and even if you do play it right, if the enemy team has any sort of hard CC they will stop the ult. And you are forgetting that even though malz locks down one enemy on the team he is also locking himself down and effectively taking himself out of the fight as well. He is a sitting duck ready to be bursted by bruisers or assassins and with the short range it isn't that hard. I do agree malzahar can do very insane amounts of damage but his Space aids can be gotten rid of by QSS as well and thats a primary source of damage for him unless he can lock people down in his pool. His silence is strong but it isn't as strong as the pool or Malefic Visions. Malzahar is just clunky and needs to be brought in line with newer champions. HIs abilities are fun and cool but his ult is in dire need of assistance because of how easy it is to stop and how much a single item can stop the Supression which is key for dealing the damage with his pool.


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Earl of Madness

Senior Member

04-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
completely disabling a single target is useless in a teamfight?
If you aren't disabling a damage source and are forced to focus a tank because of a QSS then it really isn't that good use of the ult sure you lock someone down but your team is likely to also focus the same person you lock down.... which is also probably a tank and while you are beating on a tank the enemy damage is killing you and malzahar has to self stun himself to use this ability and though damage is decent it isn't substantial without his pool and visions on at the same time only then is the damage incredible. Yes you are making the best of a bad situation but as i said while you take a tank out of a fight you being a damage source is also being taken out of a fight and tank for damage is a good trade in the enemy favor in my opinion.


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Steev0

Senior Member

04-14-2013

This may not be a good idea, but it may help him a little. What if his ult's damage occurred after the channel? The damage starts higher than it is now, and goes down to it's current value as the channel goes on. This way if the channel is broken early then they eat a bigger spike from his ult, but escape from his pool earlier. This would mean that if they eat the full channel of his ult then the ult itself wouldn't do as much damage, but if it's timed correctly forcing them to stay in his pool then they will take a significant amount of damage, but if the channel is broken and allows them to get out of the pool sooner, they will take a larger spike of damage from his ult to partially compensate for the early escape.

The balancing factor would be that staying in the pool would cause more damage in most cases, but breaking the ult early wouldn't wast the spell as thoroughly..

I think the intention of QSS is to get away from CC or make a getaway and remove dots from you so you don't die after your amazing escape, but I don't think it's intended to completely remove a champ's ability to fight you when it's off cooldown. As it is now, a duelist (or many other champs for that matter) can buy a QSS, and face Malz at any point as long as it's off cd. When they engage him and he ults, then he has used all his spells setting it up so they can just QSS and eat him. Counterplay is important, but that's some excessively hard countering from a single item.


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InternetTAB

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Senior Member

04-14-2013

you go AD malzahar, and poke from the back constantly summoning minions. When someone gets on you, turn 360 degrees and just walk away(seperate from their team and when you're 1v1 WEQR with 1 minion out already.


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Arcade Malzahar

Junior Member

05-08-2013

I do not believe that Malzahar needs a "buff" as you say to his ultimate, as Fierce Deity has clearly stated, "...he (Malzahar) does a stupid amount of damage end game.." and "... if you were to buff his ult so that he didn't need to channel you would never cease to apply damage." He has the right idea here, however I would definitely not mind (myself being a Malzahar Main) an active effect akin to the lovely Morgana's own ultimate with it's AoE, though this would introduce serious problems to Malzahar's mechanics and probably end up with him just getting "dunked" in the process.

I have other concerns regarding the visual aesthetics or Malzahar here if you are interested: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...light=malzahar


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Arcade Malzahar

Junior Member

05-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steev0 View Post
This may not be a good idea, but it may help him a little. What if his ult's damage occurred after the channel? The damage starts higher than it is now, and goes down to it's current value as the channel goes on. This way if the channel is broken early then they eat a bigger spike from his ult, but escape from his pool earlier. This would mean that if they eat the full channel of his ult then the ult itself wouldn't do as much damage, but if it's timed correctly forcing them to stay in his pool then they will take a significant amount of damage, but if the channel is broken and allows them to get out of the pool sooner, they will take a larger spike of damage from his ult to partially compensate for the early escape.

The balancing factor would be that staying in the pool would cause more damage in most cases, but breaking the ult early wouldn't wast the spell as thoroughly..

I think the intention of QSS is to get away from CC or make a getaway and remove dots from you so you don't die after your amazing escape, but I don't think it's intended to completely remove a champ's ability to fight you when it's off cooldown. As it is now, a duelist (or many other champs for that matter) can buy a QSS, and face Malz at any point as long as it's off cd. When they engage him and he ults, then he has used all his spells setting it up so they can just QSS and eat him. Counterplay is important, but that's some excessively hard countering from a single item.

I personally disagree with this idea, though I admire the passion put into this comment. Let's say you're Nethering some previously unsuspecting fellow when low and behold his jungler or ally appears, returning from some shenanigan, only to discover that his comrade is i need of aid. Bewildered and somewhat pissed, this ally rushes to his side and dunks you halfway through the process, leaving a null zone behind to fade and shed a tear as you deteriorate into void-dust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl of Madness
If you aren't disabling a damage source and are forced to focus a tank because of a QSS then it really isn't that good use of the ult sure you lock someone down but your team is likely to also focus the same person you lock down.... which is also probably a tank and while you are beating on a tank the enemy damage is killing you and malzahar has to self stun himself to use this ability and though damage is decent it isn't substantial without his pool and visions on at the same time only then is the damage incredible. Yes you are making the best of a bad situation but as i said while you take a tank out of a fight you being a damage source is also being taken out of a fight and tank for damage is a good trade in the enemy favor in my opinion.
The only time I single out any tank/bruiser in a teamfight is when it is beneficial and the situation "ordains it".


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Banff

Senior Member

05-09-2013

Malzahar requires NOTHING. He is a massive threat at every stage of the game and can easily handle multiple enemies at the same time because of a DoT that never stops bouncing and his passive voidling.

Build him like so and then thank me later:

9/12/9
HP Quint
AP red
Armor yellow
MR blue

Flash/Ignite

Boots 3x red pot. R>E>W>Q (1 in q at 4 for the silence)
Chalice immediately on first buy back. Infinite sustain + MR for trades. E the lane and be guaranteed top CS and safe harrass when combined with voidling.
Build Grail.
Build Morellonomicon. Imminent GG
Build Liandry's. Now it gets stupid.
Build Hourglass
Build Deathcap


CDR maxed makes his entire kit spammable. Grail gives this guy infinite sustain. Morellonomicon shuts down any kind of recovery. Liandry's makes this already strong champion ridiculous.


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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

05-09-2013

Vi's ult is essentially a better version of Malzahar's ult. It has a longer cast range, interrupts and prevents actions from the target (half the duration of Malz), plus Vi is immune to CC and it cannot be QSSed out of. In addition, it puts Vi into her ideal range, although you might say the same thing of a *successful* Malz ult with the positioning of his voidlings. Vi also has the bonus of dealing damage to targets along her path, which comes in very handy when ulting through a line of defenders to the squishy in back. When directly comparing these 2 ults, Vi's easily wins out, as she does in any 1v1 vs Malzahar (or any other champion, seriously who can beat Vi besides Jayce or Kassadin?) The thing is, Malz has more to his kit than that (although Vi has a ton going for her as well), and can generally do well in most scenarios, just not against Vi. Vi is ****ing STRONG, dude. Just her W. Seriously, Vi's W could be its own champion and still beat a lot of older champs. What was I talking about again?

@Banff, multiple enemies is actually Malz' biggest weakness, depending who they are. Sure he can 1v2 SOME champs without taking much in return, but the right combo of 2v1 shuts him down. He thrives in 1v1, unless it's against Vi. Vi wins. Elise is strong too, but it's more of a stalemate. Himer and Brand too, stalemate 1v1.


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Paradrakor

Senior Member

05-09-2013

Rylai's crystal scepter, although slowing less on damage-over-time, does slow your enemies somewhat. His ultimate should be a lower cooldown so he can secure the kills without having to flash/exhaust/ignite etc.


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Vsevold

Member

05-12-2013

his ult is meant for 1v1, hes an AP duelist


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