Is it racist?

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Paragón

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Senior Member

04-08-2013

I honestly smell B.S. If your friend was doing a psych paper, then some informal non-random sample poll on the League of Legends Off-Topic forum won't suffice as proper data as it won't be in any way shape or form representative of what the population as a whole thinks.

But let's humor you and grant for the sake of argument, the validity of your questionnaire...

To answer your question{s}, none of those are inherently racist, but to suggest that those supposed facts (I'm not sure if they're facts or not) entail essentialist, intrinsic deficiencies within those who identify as "African American" and therefore must be subjugated to a hierarchical class distinction or caste, is racist. It is not racist stating that a certain racial group has a statistical tendency towards a perceived X negative characteristic, but to attribute it to an essentialist, intrinsic deficiency and therefore subjugating them to a hierarchical class distinction or caste, is racist.

Statistically, blacks may spend more time in jail, run faster, have lower I.Q.s, do worse in school, etc. but the real question is why those statistics appear to be that way. Correlation does not necessarily equal causation. Differences in averages of certain traits between two groups do not say anything about causes of said differences. Just because, for example, race correlates with IQ scores does not necessarily mean that race is the most relevant factor in explaining IQ scores. For instance, many ethnic minorities also have a lower social and economic status, which could potentially help explain some of the differences.

Some differences can be also attributed to environment even when heritability is high. For example, if you take 2 populations of plants where the heritability of stem length in each group is 1 (variation in stem length solely due to genotype), if the two groups are exposed to different nutritious soil, then there will be a systematic difference between the two groups due to environmental factors even with utmost heritability.

P.S. I don't claim to be an expert on this subject matter (what I have written is solely from what I have read concerning the topic) so feel free to correct or engage what I have said.


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Fongletto

Senior Member

04-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Face Is OP View Post
Yes. All of this is racist. You keep using the term "African American".

You keep putting them in a group indicating that you are aware there's a difference.

Doesn't matter what you say after that.
Not sure what you meant? Its like having a group of people who wear hats and calling them hatters. Or a group of people who have blonde hair and calling them blondes? Are you saying that creating any kind of group is a problem? or only that creating a group that contains a different color of skin is a problem?


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Fongletto

Senior Member

04-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paragn View Post
I honestly smell B.S. If your friend was doing a psych paper, then some informal non-random sample poll on the League of Legends Off-Topic forum won't suffice as proper data as it won't be in any way shape or form representative of what the population as a whole thinks.

But let's humor you and grant for the sake of argument, the validity of your questionnaire...

To answer your question{s}, none of those are inherently racist, but to suggest that those supposed facts (I'm not sure if they're facts or not) entail essentialist, intrinsic deficiencies within those who identify as "African American" and therefore must be subjugated to a hierarchical class distinction or caste, is racist. It is not racist stating that a certain racial group has a statistical tendency towards a perceived X negative characteristic, but to attribute it to an essentialist, intrinsic deficiency and therefore subjugating them to a hierarchical class distinction or caste, is racist.

Statistically, blacks may spend more time in jail, run faster, have lower I.Q.s, do worse in school, etc. but the real question is why those statistics appear to be that way. Correlation does not necessarily equal causation. Differences in averages of certain traits between two groups do not say anything about causes of said differences. Just because, for example, race correlates with IQ scores does not necessarily mean that race is the most relevant factor in explaining IQ scores. For instance, many ethnic minorities also have a lower social and economic status, which could potentially help explain some of the differences.

Some differences can be also attributed to environment even when heritability is high. For example, if you take 2 populations of plants where the heritability of stem length in each group is 1 (variation in stem length solely due to genotype), if the two groups are exposed to different nutritious soil, then there will be a systematic difference between the two groups due to environmental factors even with utmost heritability.

P.S. I don't claim to be an expert on this subject matter (what I have written is solely from what I have read concerning the topic) so feel free to correct or engage what I have said.
Thanks for your thoughts. I'd appreciate if you answered the questions though. I should say it's more like an essay than anything official. Just a couple of ideas to submit with some information.


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Xanzabar

Junior Member

04-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fongletto View Post
Hey guys I'm helping a friend with a psych paper and I'd like it if you could Answer the following. Yes or No only please. (Please where possible go with your first instincts and answers. Don't go back and change them upon deeper consideration. Or if you do mention it in the comments)

Is it racist to say;
African Americans are faster runners than Caucasian.

African Americans according to crime statistics are 6 times more likely to spend time in jail.

African Americans according to crime statistics are 3 times more likely to car Jack you.

African American males have slightly larger *****es than Caucasian males.

African Americans have thicker skulls than Caucasians.
The first few points are not racist statements. They are stereotypes and statistical facts. Although it may be hard to agree at first, it is something that coincidentally occur with said race. Same the logic can be applied to other races.

For example:

Asians know kung fu
Mexicans tend to not speak English very well
Italians are associated with the mafia
Native Americans love to gamble

Again, these are stereotypes that have been supported by statistical data from many generations. Many of these stereotypes are usually taken with a grain of salt during first impressions. Of course, stereotypes do get mixed with racism if a person keeps imposing stereotypes on someone even if they had not committed to anything to reinforce it. Putting someone in a box of stereotypes and not giving that person a chance to speak or act on his/her behalf is a form of racism.

All in all, there is a fine line between stereotypes and racism. Stereotypes can be argued with data and research. It's not meant to be offensive but a form of knowledge that can be used. Racism is an act of hate which causes a person to be bias towards a race(s). Sometimes, the racist can use statistical data to prove something or an event may have occurred to cause trauma to make a person racist. In these cases, the racist have some backing to his reasons and is hard to shake him/her from his/her stance. In most cases, the racist has no backing to his/her reason and can simply fling slander quickly without thought. These are the types of racist who misuses stereotypes as a weapon in their arguments.


Quote:
I don't want to park my car in that African American neighborhood because it's more likely to get stolen.
It is racist to say this because parking a car in a poor neighborhood with a high crime rate is what gets a car stolen. Not because of a race.


Quote:
Is there a difference between saying something negative about a race or group and being racist?
In my opinion, it's technically still racist if you are speaking ill will of a race of group. It depends on the tone that is presented from the person and if there is any foundation or data on what he/she said.

Conclusively speaking, it's all about the intention of the statement.


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Fongletto

Senior Member

04-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanzabar View Post
The first few points are not racist statements. They are stereotypes and statistical facts. Although it may be hard to agree at first, it is something that coincidentally occur with said race. Same the logic can be applied to other races.

For example:

Asians know kung fu
Mexicans tend to not speak English very well
Italians are associated with the mafia
Native Americans love to gamble

Again, these are stereotypes that have been supported by statistical data from many generations. Many of these stereotypes are usually taken with a grain of salt during first impressions. Of course, stereotypes do get mixed with racism if a person keeps imposing stereotypes on someone even if they had not committed to anything to reinforce it. Putting someone in a box of stereotypes and not giving that person a chance to speak or act on his/her behalf is a form of racism.

All in all, there is a fine line between stereotypes and racism. Stereotypes can be argued with data and research. It's not meant to be offensive but a form of knowledge that can be used. Racism is an act of hate which causes a person to be bias towards a race(s). Sometimes, the racist can use statistical data to prove something or an event may have occurred to cause trauma to make a person racist. In these cases, the racist have some backing to his reasons and is hard to shake him/her from his/her stance. In most cases, the racist has no backing to his/her reason and can simply fling slander quickly without thought. These are the types of racist who misuses stereotypes as a weapon in their arguments.




It is racist to say this because parking a car in a poor neighborhood with a high crime rate is what gets a car stolen. Not because of a race.




In my opinion, it's technically still racist if you are speaking ill will of a race of group. It depends on the tone that is presented from the person and if there is any foundation or data on what he/she said.

Conclusively speaking, it's all about the intention of the statement.
Hey thanks for responding. Can I assume your answer is no to all those questions then?


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Mere Intricacy

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Senior Member

04-08-2013

Is it racist to say;
African Americans are faster runners than Caucasian. Yes

African Americans according to crime statistics are 6 times more likely to spend time in jail. No.

African Americans according to crime statistics are 3 times more likely to car Jack you. No.

African American males have slightly larger peenises than Caucasian males. No.

African Americans have thicker skulls than Caucasians. No.

I don't want to park my car in that African American neighborhood because it's more likely to get stolen. Yes.

Is there a difference between saying something negative about a race or group and being racist? No.


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CatchandKiss

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Senior Member

04-09-2013

No to all.
I mean some of those statements are arguably false, but that doesn't make them racist.


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GreenEyedMonster

Senior Member

04-09-2013

Observing differences in cultural/biological lights is not racist.

Discriminating against someone for these differences are.

The problem is special interest groups and minorities have gotten drunk on making people feel guilty for even the slightest peep about mentioning differences.

I am all for equality, I push for it even, but people abusing minority/special interest political correctness to get their way or make others feel bad is just as racist/bigoted as they claim white people to be.

And that very behavior is going to prevent equality and the smoothing of racial tensions.


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the flail

Senior Member

04-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyedMonster View Post
Observing differences in cultural/biological lights is not racist.

Discriminating against someone for these differences are.

The problem is special interest groups and minorities have gotten drunk on making people feel guilty for even the slightest peep about mentioning differences.

I am all for equality, I push for it even, but people abusing minority/special interest political correctness to get their way or make others feel bad is just as racist/bigoted as they claim white people to be.

And that very behavior is going to prevent equality and the smoothing of racial tensions.
This should be a /thread.


But it won't be =/


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