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RIOT: Lissandra's Mana Regen - Not Enough?

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PerformingCircus

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Hi there! This is my first post here and I'm exited to start contributing opinions and hunting for bugs.

This is just a personal opinion, but Lissandra's mana regen is 4.6 (0.4) currently. It's stated on her official reveal that she is going to be a very mana efficient champion, and with that mana regen rate, I don't feel that's what comes across to the player. She is very mana hungry, even moreso than Diana.

For example, Diana's regen rate is 7 (0.6) and it's hard to maintain mana with her in the first place. With Lissandra, it's a whole other story.

I understand her passive is designed to help her save mana, and it's very nice, but I don't feel like an 18 second cool down for a free spell, regardless of a chance to lower that cooldown by casting more CC spells (that in most cases I find I have no mana left to attempt to lower it), is worth stabbing her mana regen rate.

I'm wondering if you guys will consider buffing her mana regen rate, in anyway you see fit, just something more. (Or perhaps lower spell costs?) The passive in some cases encourages the player to spend more mana to lower the cooldown for a free spell. Thus, this completely throws off the idea that she's a very mana efficient champion. I feel like this really hurts her top lane potential.

Other than that, I would like to say I'm very excited for this champion. She's very fun to play, the most fun I've had with a champion since Elise. Her voice actress is PERFECT, her jokes are hilarious, and her kit is just impeccable.

If it's not changed, I'm sure we'll manage of course, I'm willing to. These are just my humble opinions. Thank you very much!


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Kanderas

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
PerformingCircus:
Hi there! This is my first post here and I'm exited to start contributing opinions and hunting for bugs.

You have absolutely no idea how happy this makes me feel. Welcome to the PBE forums.

To respond: at the moment I have rather mixed feelings about the whole thing, though largely agree with you say. There a couple of important things you haven't considered though:
  1. Compairing Lissandra to Diana is not particularly apt, not only do they have completely different roles, but their kits also function completely differently.
  2. Lissandra is designed to be a CC mage with sustained damage and as such, attempting to burst people with her abilities may cause problems. That free spell is a lot more noticeable if used for harrass. Nunu players will be more familiar with this.
  3. Most of Lissandra's abilities have flat costs, so as her mana regen goes up, her abilities dont do likewise to compensate, making her mana regen far more potent then it would otherwise appear to be.
  4. Combining her passive with Athene's Unholy Grail proves incredibly powerful, and is probably a large factor in her current mana regen rate. The synergy is supreme: she can get a free spell more often with the CDR, giving her more regen from spamming spells, and she'll get the 12% restoration every fight because she tags people so easily with W/R.

Drawing more on that last point, because it is such a good item on her Riot would be foolish not to take it into heavy consideration when balancing her mana regen. To compare her to Diana (which is bad but it'll illustrate the point), at Level 10, Lissandra's mana regen is near the same as Diana's with 50% mana, but Lis gets a free spell and can boost it higher while Diana has no such luxury without getting the item herself (something less of a priority on her).

To sum it up, I think Lis needs a bit more testing before the truth of the issue will become apparrent, but welcome again to the PBE forums and hopefully we'll keep seeing you around.


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Im Contributing

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Actually if I recall CDR will not affect her passive via items. Only spells that provide movement impairment (her ult, W, and Q) will cause that -1 second cd.


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Ecclesias

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
HamrioMusica:
Actually if I recall CDR will not affect her passive via items. Only spells that provide movement impairment (her ult, W, and Q) will cause that -1 second cd.


what he is trying to say if that with the mana regen and CDR of Athene's Unholy Grail, you can spam more spells (to be specific the ice spear thing) and faster, which translates in the passive cd lowering too


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Kanderas

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
Ecclesias:
what he is trying to say if that with the mana regen and CDR of Athene's Unholy Grail, you can spam more spells (to be specific the ice spear thing) and faster, which translates in the passive cd lowering too

Correct. The CDR means more spells which means your free spell is sooner, while spamming spells means less mana which means more mana regen to completely repeat what Ecclesias just said. Now if only she was on the PBE for us to test this out. Also I think the third point I made may prove to be significant as well assuming they dont give her scaling mana costs before she goes Live.


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Ibuki Suika

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Max CDR on Liss is absurd and unholy grail solves any mana issues and gives you half of max CDR on its own.


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emberfly

Member

04-07-2013

Have you tried an archangel's staff on her?


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ESP

Member

04-07-2013

Welcome!

If you ignore the fact that using an ability on champions reduces the cooldown (I'm not sure it's worth it really), assume she uses her passive on her q the moment it's up. This means she essentially gets free 85 mana every 18 seconds. That's an average of 4.7 mana per second she gets for free (23.5 per 5!). That's a huuuuge amount of free mana. It's not exactly the same because you must use the ability to get this "free" mana, but it's comparable.

It's similar to Orianna. She gets free damage on her auto attacks, so they lower her base AD to (I think?) the lowest in the game. Her auto attacks still do more damage than most mages, however.

It's all a balance game, Lissandra gets free mana, so her costs are a bit higher, and her regen is a bit lower.


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ZeroX1999

Member

04-07-2013

I think that the passive is too slow to give the "free cast" towards end game. I understand that the cd for the passive must be 18 at the beginning, but the cd for the passive should be reduced every 6 , 11 , 16 levels or per level. It is kinda stupid for a mage to have such high costs of mana in the beginning without any range.


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Lexinus

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
Kanderas:
Correct. The CDR means more spells which means your free spell is sooner, while spamming spells means less mana which means more mana regen to completely repeat what Ecclesias just said. Now if only she was on the PBE for us to test this out. Also I think the third point I made may prove to be significant as well assuming they dont give her scaling mana costs before she goes Live.


Fixed that random downvote. Good input Kanderas.


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