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Karma Buffs Feedback

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Bombkirby

Senior Member

04-06-2013

So the last PBE update got rid of a lot of the new features, but it did release several Karma buffs:

  • Gathering Fire ( Passive ) now reduces Mantra cooldown by a flat 2 (down from 1/1.5/2) each time Karma damage an enemy champion and flat 1 (down from .5, .75, 1) seconds on basic attack.
  • Focused Resolve ( W ) mana cost lowered to 70/75/80/85/90 from 70/80/90/100/110.
  • Inspire ( E ) movement speed increased to 1.5 from 1.25
  • Defiance ( Mantra E ) haste increased to 60% at all ranks from 20/30/40/50/60%.

And as soon as this 3 hour queue is over I'll leave some useful feedback. In the meantime, what does everyone else think about the changes?

Just at a glance I feel like the passive change is good, because Mantra should be more available. Right now Mantra is being treated with the CD of a Lux ult...but Mantra boosted spells don't even feel remotely as strong as such an ult. The E change is good so you don't have to rush leveling shield to get the nice speed boost. I felt burdened, especially as support, to level all 3 spells, but this helps lessen the burden.

On the other hand, I predict that the W change will not be enough. Its dangerous range, long start up time before the root effect happens, negligible damage, outclassed CC effect (while other supports/mids can instantly stun or knock people up in a second without trying to leash someone for several seconds before it happens) and extremely useless Mantra effect. After the first few levels, I don't think you would ever waste the Mantra on a weak and selfish heal. It needs to feel like... Mundo's ult lategame if they want Karma's to actually think about using it. You only get like 1-2 Mantra casts in a fight, and you'll have to waste it on a Mantra shield or Q at least. W is the most problematic spell in my eyes so I'd like to see something more than a mana tweak, which is probably the most cautious of all buffs.

Q might need some changes as well, but I'll see if the ability to Mantra Q more changed anything once I get logged in.

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Something that a lot of people seem to agree is an issue:
Quote:
Bombkirby:
Little diagram of the flaw in Q2's AoE: (diagram made in MS paints, true work of art here): http://i.imgur.com/5FwYEwL.png


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konfetarius

Senior Member

04-06-2013

Maaaaake Q explode on its own upon reaching max range without Mantra reliaaance!


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Bombkirby

Senior Member

04-06-2013

Well since everyone instalocks mid, my PvP testing won't be happening anytime soon.

From what i could tell from my bots game though, is that the Mantra cooldown improvement worked pretty well. Dare I say perfectly. I actually got 3+ mantra's off in one fight. That's more like it. And you can really see the CD tick down quickly when you use W.

I can't comment on how well tuned her damage was though since bots are...well...terrible and I was 5 levels ahead of them the entire time, so everything hit them like a truck.

One thing to note...Mantra Q will never hit a fleeing/moving target. The second part of it I mean. When the first part strikes a fleeing enemy the second part never spawns directly under them, and when it does spawn, the target already has one foot out of the circle. And in practice, players don't sit still while playing LoL, so the result was that it just hardly hits. Maybe thats why the spell feels so lackluster at the moment.


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Cuddlebunch

Member

04-06-2013

I think they need to make the Mantra part of Q AOE just a tad bigger, so if you hit directly on them, you get a reward of getting the extra boost of damage. Right now, its kind of useless to hit directly on them.. you have to lead it just a tad to get both of them to hit. Which in itself isn't all that bad, but it is kind of stupid.


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knivesoutt

Senior Member

04-06-2013

In my opinion the problem with Mantra+W is that is meant to be used mostly in mid-lane. I main mid, and I've played old and present Karma in both support and mage roles and I must say that the skill doesn't seem so bad for me as it had saved my life many times buffed with mantra. It's pretty useful when you want to stay in lane with low health to get some more exp and cs. Dumb players will try to dive and if you react fast enough you can E+MantraW to deny some damage and heal while you are rooting them under turret agro. That worked pretty well for me since I tried to keep my playstyle the same with Karma, as she was and still is a master-baiter in midlane.

In Support role it doesn't feel so useful (Talking of Mantra+W) since you want to most of the time protect your ADC more than yourself. But W on it's own is a great way of denying a gank or to save an ally that is being chased

PS: Forgive the language barrier


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Bombkirby

Senior Member

04-06-2013

Quote:
Cuddlebunch:
I think they need to make the Mantra part of Q AOE just a tad bigger, so if you hit directly on them, you get a reward of getting the extra boost of damage. Right now, its kind of useless to hit directly on them.. you have to lead it just a tad to get both of them to hit. Which in itself isn't all that bad, but it is kind of stupid.


yeah a radius buff might help. At least so its a liiiiitle less than the size of an Ori ult or so. That's a relatively smallish AoE-ult (not Zyra/Amumu sized) and belongs to a fellow support mage. Around the same size as the shield AoE damage effect of E Mantra.


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NMEmber

Member

04-06-2013

Personally aside from the AoE on Mantra'd Q needing a slight radius buff so people can't constantly jump out of it and avoid the damage. I think the new changes are great. They allow use of Mantra much more often and make her more mana efficient even just by a tiny bit to help the players who make her a bursty mage able to spam Q more often. I think to avoid utterly breaking the champion who is now sitting in a good place no more changes be made other than the Q radius buff and only a slight one at that.


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Best Karma Ionia

Senior Member

04-06-2013

I think they're scared to buff Q because right now it's her only [being lenient too] 'decent' or 'good' or 'reliable' or 'damaging' ability. If they buff it over the top, they're probably scared it'll make her release ZYRA levels of OP... Which I dont see happening, but it helps explain things.


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ZapMyHeart

Senior Member

04-06-2013

W's range need to be buffed slightly. Maybe by 25. Because that range is just way too dangerous. MW is still lackluster as ever and extremely situational still.

The buff to her passive and E/ME was excellent. You really feel powerful when using it.

Q/MQ needs something still.


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Bombkirby

Senior Member

04-06-2013

Quote:
Homocastle:
I think they're scared to buff Q because right now it's her only [being lenient too] 'decent' or 'good' or 'reliable' or 'damaging' ability. If they buff it over the top, they're probably scared it'll make her release ZYRA levels of OP... Which I dont see happening, but it helps explain things.


My issue with Q is the Mantra version. If you miss with the Mantra version, it doesnt hit them and they get out scott free. If you DO hit them with it, they can dash or even walk right out of it. What kind of spell doesn't give you a reward for hitting the enemy? If they fail to dodge it they deserve to take the full blast, especially considering the CD on Mantra Q.

Quote:
ZapMyHeart:
W's range need to be buffed slightly. Maybe by 25. Because that range is just way too dangerous. MW is still lackluster as ever and extremely situational still.

The buff to her passive and E/ME was excellent. You really feel powerful when using it.

Q/MQ needs something still.


Seems like a good short summary of what she needs.

I think they should just try some of these buff ideas instead of being cautious. Karma's been neglected/unpopular/UP for ages. If by some chance she was overbuffed, a week of being slightly OP wouldn't be the end of the world and could be fixed in no time.. They should take a risk and put some more oomph into her spells instead of doing the cautious mana buffs.