So for the next visual update, kill a champion

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Kyryck

Senior Member

04-06-2013

I was sitting thinking about some of the difficulties that are coming from the attempts to coordinate the lore with the visual updates/relaunches.

I wonder, developers, could you not simply work it out so that when you do a visual update, or perhaps a relaunch of a character, you work the lore so that the original character was killed and the new character is their son, daughter, relative, possessed by their spirit, etc.

Essentially you're keeping the same set of skills on the character, but providing a continuing lore development. For instance, say that you want to update Karma (which you did). Instead of having Karma the character relaunched, have it so that Karma gets ambushed by Singed and killed. Her daughter, in training to control her innate magical powers, discovers this and joins the League to attempt to address her mother's murder. She takes the name Karma as a tribute to her mother.

This would explain things like Karma's new skills. The daughter is more aggressive with her magic because she is partially driven by revenge as a motive and so has advanced some of her abilities to reflect that need to be aggressive and less defensive like the old Karma. It would also let you advance the storyline and provide some character interaction and develop personal relationships in the story.

Now, obviously Karma is relaunched and it's done and over. But the idea still stands for further champion relaunches and kit reworks. The old character has died, the new character inherits the mantle , the story is developed further.

If you want to develop Soraka and Warwick for instance, have Warwick kill Soraka (at last). Her death fuels a further magical transformation in Warwick instead of giving him what he expects will happen with her death. Soraka's spirit infuses a bystander that Warwick injured. She develops a partnership with that bystander. Now Soraka's skills could also be redesigned if need be. You keep the core of her but adjust what you need to adjust (make her less passive and more proactive as a support for instance).

Granted, you can't do this all the time, but this idea has the potential to really develop some of the storylines and provide further opportunity for growth, not to mention giving the community a memorable experience to remember, which helps them connect to the game. Heck, I still have good memories of Star Wars Galaxies because of some of the things the game did that were 'one offs' that I was around for. Things like that are part of what makes a community cohesive and positive.

I'd encourage people reading to contribute some ideas if they find some merit in my spitballing above. Are there any champions that should be relaunched/reworked that could use something like this as a platform for them to be relaunched from? I am sure there are many chances to update champions and work out a death and future inheritance to advance storylines.


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Vongeo

Senior Member

04-06-2013

THey could finally kill teemo.


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Kyryck

Senior Member

04-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vongeo View Post
THey could finally kill teemo.
They could. Of course, then we'd be stuck with Son of Teemo or something. Lol. I'm not sure which would be worse.


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Vongeo

Senior Member

04-06-2013

Teemo is a unic.


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Lovegood

Senior Member

04-06-2013

I think this is both a phenomenal and terrible idea.

What's good about this is, it really opens and diversifies the League of Legends lore, allowing for far more excitement and curiosity than what we currently have.

The downsides to this, however, is that they can't do this without making every VU a son/daughter of the champion, or else skins and the original concept of the character would go to waste, and they can't even make a "traditional" skin.


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Kyryck

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovegood View Post
I think this is both a phenomenal and terrible idea.

What's good about this is, it really opens and diversifies the League of Legends lore, allowing for far more excitement and curiosity than what we currently have.

The downsides to this, however, is that they can't do this without making every VU a son/daughter of the champion, or else skins and the original concept of the character would go to waste, and they can't even make a "traditional" skin.
I think you're right in terms of them not being able to do it all the time. That would definitely be overkill, especially with the amount of visual updates/relaunches that they're doing. But doing it sparingly would certainly create a progression in the story and a connection to the game.

I saw something by some other developer in another thread after I made this one. Kitai I think? The dev said that a transformation of a character (like from Robin to Nightwing, then a new character takes over as Robin. That new character has the same basic training as the original Robin but enough different personal skill to warrant an entirely new character altogether) would be interesting to do, and I think an experience like that would qualify as significant as killing somebody off.


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Hussarlance

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Senior Member

04-08-2013

I idea might have worked, but unfortunately it buts heads with players love for the characters. I will use comics to explain.

Every few years, we get a Batman who is not Bruce Wayne. The idea is out with the old, in with the new. Batman was for a short time replaced by a Stronger faster version of batman with robot gears and armor, think his name was Azreal.

It was cool for a while, but the problem is, people love the concept of Bruce Wayne too much. Getting someone to accept anyone besides Steve Rogers as Captain America, Peter Parker as Spiderman, or Bruce Wayne as Batman can work for a short time. But after a while, we just want our old familiar friends back.

Your concept of essentially permanent champion death violates that. And while we may get annoyed that almost nothing ever changes in terms of character relationships, people get even more pissed when you DO try to change things.


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Kyryck

Senior Member

04-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hussarlance View Post
I idea might have worked, but unfortunately it buts heads with players love for the characters. I will use comics to explain.

Every few years, we get a Batman who is not Bruce Wayne. The idea is out with the old, in with the new. Batman was for a short time replaced by a Stronger faster version of batman with robot gears and armor, think his name was Azreal.

It was cool for a while, but the problem is, people love the concept of Bruce Wayne too much. Getting someone to accept anyone besides Steve Rogers as Captain America, Peter Parker as Spiderman, or Bruce Wayne as Batman can work for a short time. But after a while, we just want our old familiar friends back.

Your concept of essentially permanent champion death violates that. And while we may get annoyed that almost nothing ever changes in terms of character relationships, people get even more pissed when you DO try to change things.
Well, even comic books do kill characters off permanently. Look at Jean Grey. The original Robin was beaten to death with a crowbar by The Joker. They brought him back, but he was never Robin again and never will be. They also have a thing now where Parker is killed off by Doctor Octopus. I'd also like to point out that killing off a character as iconic as Batman or Captain America is hardly done for many reasons, not simply because people like them.

I understand what you're saying, but I think you're overestimated the reactions people would have to a well designed character change/death in this game. I think they're more upset when a character is redone in a way that essentially destroys and diminishes the old character. Speaking as a writer, I'd rather have a character arc that ends with a character dying and passing on their mantle to a new, worthy successor rather than a character remade into something that he/she wasn't and that kind of nullifies the old character's lore. Every good story has an ending, after all, and then life goes on.

Remember though, the champion doesn't have to die to do this type of thing. Training to further their development, etc, could be the end result. Even if they do die, they can do something like possess an innocent bystander who was injured by the champion that killed them in the first place. For instance, Soraka is finally killed by Warwick and in the process Warwick tore his way through an innocent bystander to get to her by surprise. Though Soraka's body died, her spirit lingered, trying to help the innocent person injured by her conflict with Warwick. The person was dying so Soraka proposed infusing the innocent with her spirit to heal her. Both agreed to do this and now both Soraka and this innocent share the same body. This could result in a furthering of her skills to include a more aggressive skillset, which could be explained by their need to get revenge on Warwick for what he has done. Warwick could also be advanced by this, since Soraka's death fuels his magical transformation further and gives him new abilities as well.

But anyway, that's just an example. I'm sure others could improve upon it, or give other examples. Death doesn't need to be part of the equation, if the writers at Riot really feel that the fans of the champion would truly react adversely to it if it happened. A good point to bring up though I think that there are ways around it.


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Ecclesias

Senior Member

04-08-2013

yeah, the comic book solution. I had thinked about it too and I wouldn't mind it every now and then


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OriginalA

Senior Member

04-08-2013

I don't like this idea at all.

If you keep the kit the same and just update the visuals and slap a new name on it then you have Gerenation Xerox... which is stupid. Why introduce an effectively new character by having them replace an older character and not have any game play changes? That's stale game play and you wasted the opportunity to evolve this new character into their own person by shoehorning them into the shadow of the older character, and you have alienated the fans of the older character by removing them from the game.

If you are talking about kit changes then you can make up whatever reason you want. Death, used cheaply, lacks impact, and that is what you would be encouraging. If your going to kill a Champion do it right and remove them, and their kit, from the game. Make sure that everything that comes after does not fill that role either or else it would seem like a cheap replacement. That is why dieing in a comic book is so lame... because with the exception of Uncle Ben you are practically garenteed to come back to life at some point. It lacks impact. Flip that over and look at something else like Honor Harrington or Game of Thrones. Characters will last for hundreds and hundreds if not thousands and thousands of pages... and then they die and they are gone. That has meaningful impact. That is felt by the audience as much as the characters.

I don't like this idea. I think it uses character death as cheap drama, and that never turns out well especially if you bring the character back, and if you bring them immediately back then you just missed the point entirely.

And the last problem is that if you actually kill them and remove them from the game then you have a whole in your gameplay roles, and that's going to upset the play-to-win and professional crowds.


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