Who exactly has Lissandra been murdering to stay in power?

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SpiffmeisterZ

Senior Member

04-05-2013

If she has been the leader for generations, and the leadership is based on bloodline, it would follow that her child would be the next leader, right?

Is she just constantly having kids and killing them?


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OriginalA

Senior Member

04-05-2013

Sure, why not. That witch from Dragon Age did it.


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Thanias1

Senior Member

04-05-2013

I GOTZ IT!!!

She killed the missing High Summoner of the League. (The one everyone thinks is jax)
She disguises herself as that chick summoner from the judgements. I forgot her name sorry T-T


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Fomorian27

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Senior Member

04-05-2013

I was thinking about this exact plot hole myself. We can explain it as either

A) The frost guard are very secluded from the rest of the world, and the people around her are all corrupted and know that they are worshipping the Ice Witch, so they don't care when she changes appearances and assumes a new form. They just tell the rest of the world that "the old queen has died! Long live the new queen!"

or B) The real monarch line is still alive, either as figureheads under her control or as prisoners, and she just slays them and takes their identity when they come of age.

Even though these seem like straightforward enough explanations, this is still a plot hole, because the lore leaves the reader in confusion about how she's doing it. Ambiguity where there shouldn't be any ambiguity is a sign of bad writing.

You could argue that a little ambiguity is allowed, since the Ice witche's true identity is such a mystery already, but the lore is already giving us a more straightforward account of her actions than anybody in the whole of runeterra has ever seen, explaining her motives in the most candid manner, that obfuscating the details of the very minor matter of how she's replacing her successors is completely pointless.


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HamburgerTime

Member

04-05-2013

Yeah that would be the right word to use, Ambiguous. A lot of the new lore is ambiguous,why champs join the league when it seems counter to their motives. Why the league doesn't seem to care why this world destroyer joins when they used to capture such champs.

Essentially I think the story reveal for Lissandra was meant to wipe away ALL of the old LIssandra. It would make more sense to have her be corrupted or possessed. They didn't do this...
Why? Maybe the lore nerds would want someone else to take up Lissandra's place as ruler of the Frost Guard?
lol nope!
Lissandra corrupted the whole group so they are all evil.

While shouldn't the Ice Witch not be named Lissandra? Since she isn't LIssandra (Ice Witch killed her).
LOL NOPE!
Ice Witch was the OG Lissandra and named the heir she killed Lissandra too so she could have her name back....

The whole lore now is built around killing the Lissandra people were anticipating, quite thoroughly I would say.

(Tinfoil Hat) Seems like it was done just to piss off the lore nerds imo

Still the artifact Ice weapon she wielded in those tiny jpegs (i cant tell if it's a sword or a polearm) which is like Ashe's Artifact Bow or Sejuani's Mace might still exist (don't hold your breath) and someone might come along who wields it.


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HellComet

Senior Member

04-05-2013

Chances are its just some girl Picked out by Lissandra to be her successor


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Doom Puppy

Senior Member

04-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HamburgerTime2 View Post
Yeah that would be the right word to use, Ambiguous. A lot of the new lore is ambiguous,why champs join the league when it seems counter to their motives. Why the league doesn't seem to care why this world destroyer joins when they used to capture such champs.

Essentially I think the story reveal for Lissandra was meant to wipe away ALL of the old LIssandra. It would make more sense to have her be corrupted or possessed. They didn't do this...
Why? Maybe the lore nerds would want someone else to take up Lissandra's place as ruler of the Frost Guard?
lol nope!
Lissandra corrupted the whole group so they are all evil.

While shouldn't the Ice Witch not be named Lissandra? Since she isn't LIssandra (Ice Witch killed her).
LOL NOPE!
Ice Witch was the OG Lissandra and named the heir she killed Lissandra too so she could have her name back....

The whole lore now is built around killing the Lissandra people were anticipating, quite thoroughly I would say.

(Tinfoil Hat) Seems like it was done just to piss off the lore nerds imo

Still the artifact Ice weapon she wielded in those tiny jpegs (i cant tell if it's a sword or a polearm) which is like Ashe's Artifact Bow or Sejuani's Mace might still exist (don't hold your breath) and someone might come along who wields it.
You're assuming quite a few things here. For example the last thing you said
about the polearm. At no point is there any reason to believe that that was actually Lissandra. Did it make sense in the context we were given? Yes. Does that make it inherently the correct answer? Of course not. It's theory crafting. Now on to my more substantive complaints.
The entire notion you seem to have that there was an "old Lissandra" has not been eliminated in anyway. You read a newspaper that told you that Lissandra had been crowned and had sworn fealty to Ashe. That happened. At what point did you assume that a newspaper is a completely reliable or accurate source of information? That they would have all the details? You took what you were told, extrapolated from there, and raged when you found out you were lied to. That doesn't make you a lore nerd that makes you gullible.
Finally I don't understand how any self respecting lore nerd could actually question why the League would allow the Ice Witch to join the League without doing anything about her. Has the League not demonstrated how much it wants, needs, to stay in power? The Ice Witch clearly doesn't care that the League knows her plans because she's just as aware the League won't do anything to stop her until it's too late. The League plays along with this anyway because they feel the need to watch her. Why don't they just act? Ask yourself how many threats to Valoran are concentrated in the League. Now ask yourself how many would be there if the League broke its covenant to never reveal their secrets? Try almost none. The city states wouldn't let their champions fight there either. The League would dissolve over night. Faced with the chance to keep an eye on these threats or almost certain dissolution the League will pick watching every time. Until one of these threats becomes imminent, very large, and unable to be resolved without direct intervention the League will never relinquish its power.


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Mod Aure

Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fomorian27 View Post
I was thinking about this exact plot hole myself. We can explain it as either

A) The frost guard are very secluded from the rest of the world, and the people around her are all corrupted and know that they are worshipping the Ice Witch, so they don't care when she changes appearances and assumes a new form. They just tell the rest of the world that "the old queen has died! Long live the new queen!"

or B) The real monarch line is still alive, either as figureheads under her control or as prisoners, and she just slays them and takes their identity when they come of age.

Even though these seem like straightforward enough explanations, this is still a plot hole, because the lore leaves the reader in confusion about how she's doing it. Ambiguity where there shouldn't be any ambiguity is a sign of bad writing.

You could argue that a little ambiguity is allowed, since the Ice witche's true identity is such a mystery already, but the lore is already giving us a more straightforward account of her actions than anybody in the whole of runeterra has ever seen, explaining her motives in the most candid manner, that obfuscating the details of the very minor matter of how she's replacing her successors is completely pointless.
I believe the Reds have said that the exact specifics of how she takes over people was left ambiguous on purpose, so we may speculate about it.


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Fomorian27

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Senior Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mod Aure View Post
I believe the Reds have said that the exact specifics of how she takes over people was left ambiguous on purpose, so we may speculate about it.
That's dumb imo. "We are going to spell out in explicit detail that lissandra is not who she seems, is actually an Ice Witch whose ultimate plan is to reawaken an ancient race of evil beings in order to bring eternal winter to the world, something that nobody in the world of runeterra knows about apart from lissandra's followers. We are also going to tell them that she has been killing people to stay in power, we're just not going to say who it is."

There is a place for mystery. In a lore that is already so unmysterious, it just doesn't make sense.


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Mod Aure

Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fomorian27 View Post
That's dumb imo. "We are going to spell out in explicit detail that lissandra is not who she seems, is actually an Ice Witch whose ultimate plan is to reawaken an ancient race of evil beings in order to bring eternal winter to the world, something that nobody in the world of runeterra knows about apart from lissandra's followers. We are also going to tell them that she has been killing people to stay in power, we're just not going to say who it is."

There is a place for mystery. In a lore that is already so unmysterious, it just doesn't make sense.
How does it not make sense? It does to me. Liss murders the future heirs and takes over their identity. How is currently unknown, and may be revealed later.

We simply don't know a lot about the process. In fact we don't know a lot of other stuff too - how Twisted Fate gained his powers (specifics), what Vayne's goal is for joining the League....

We know the general layout of Ice Witch Liss's plot, but details are left out. It still makes sense though. Liss kills the next heir, which might be either her daughter or a random-o chosen from the tribe if that's how they run things there.

It's not a plot hole because it doesn't conflict with other lore.


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