Infinity Edge is kinda weak

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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

04-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockJockey View Post
JustMyBassCannon

While I understand that getting an IE is the equivalent of getting another half an auto attack on a crit. the equivalent of 2.5 AAs in one AA.

But then one has to consider the cost of this wonderful crit multiplier. For the same cost of an IE, one could buy a BloodThirster, a longsword and have 230 gp left, nearly enough for a Fortitude Potion or half way to another Vamp Scepter.

BloodThirster Route: 135 AD, 20 Lifesteal, and some Health
___Versus___
Infinity Edge Route: 70 AD, 25 Critical Strike Chance, 250% Crit Damage

So in the end, for the same amount of gold, with the BT, I have double the base AD and 20% Lifesteal on top of that. The IE has half the AD with a 25% chance to deal 2.5% damage, and no lifesteal.

If there were two Graves' with exactly 1000 Health, 100 AD and 1.0 AS and using no abilities were to fight each other only using AA's, who would win?

AA1
BT: 235 AD
IE: 170
AA2
BT: 235 AD
IE: 170
AA3
BT: 235 AD
IE: 170
AA4
BT: 235 AD
IE: 425 AD

BT: 940 AD, Healed 376
Total Health: 451

IE: 935 AD
Total Health: 60

So here's our answer, Blood Thirster is better than Infinity Edge in both cost efficiency and dealing damage, as well as keeping the bearer alive. While IE has a 25% chance to deal damage, it is entirely possible to not have a single Critical Strike. So for a first pick item between IE and BT, BT wins.

P.S. The combination of both a BT and an IE is great, but BT is a much better first pick.
Cool, someone actually proved me wrong with math and everything...that's seriously rare to see.

IE is still a better damage multiplier though; it increases the effectiveness of other damage items (and champions' steroids) more than BT. It's just now IE isn't always the best first item on carries.

Unless you're Draven.


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awkwardbowman

Senior Member

04-05-2013

You guys are going way to indepth to this. He was just asking if it's weak.
IE scales off your other stats, BT does as well but only barely and dthat's only for lifesteal.
As a first item, I would grab a BT (or BotRK) and probably never rush IE, but once I get a zeal at least, IE gives a huge boost. They're strong in different situations.

But is IE underpowered? Does it need to be changed? No, it doesn't. Not really.

And on Draven you'd probably want BT because the crit bonus on IE doesn't apply to the Q damage and the extra AD from BT's passive DOES apply to the Q damage. And it gives you sustain which, with your high damage in general, you can easily regain the little you lost in trades.


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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

04-05-2013

AD is the first stat you want to raise most often thanks to the time between harass or last hits making attack speed a non-issue, plus a lot of AD champion abilities scale off of AD so it's a quick buff to them. On most champs a sanguine/BT is better first, since the sustain acts as both out of combat recovery and minor bulk when fighting, but gangplank gets to be special. He loves getting IE first since the crit scales on his parrrley so well, and again, attack speed is never an issue when your main damage source is an ability.

As a side note, I could see maybe a MINOR buff back to 80 AD as it was pre-S3. BT used to be 60-100 AD and lost full stacks, but it got buffed to 70-100 and only losing half while IE got nerfed from 80 to 70? BT makes a much better option for most thanks to having the same starting AD and never dropping down that low again. Sanguine remained mostly unchanged, except that it starts 5 higher and caps sooner, but the cap of 95 AD is the same. Still, it makes a better option now as 1 attack brings it up to more than an IE as it stands.

So yes, I am in favor of restoring it to 80 AD, but that's ALL.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

04-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by awkwardbowman View Post
And on Draven you'd probably want BT because the crit bonus on IE doesn't apply to the Q damage and the extra AD from BT's passive DOES apply to the Q damage. And it gives you sustain which, with your high damage in general, you can easily regain the little you lost in trades.
If my first item was a BF Sword, then yes this is true.

However, my first two items are Zeal and Vamp Scepter. I'm one of those players that builds intermediary items instead of rushing each big item in a linear progression; the drawback is I don't grow in leaps, while the benefit is that the consistent growth keeps my early game solid.

And it justifies buying IE after those items, because I have enough LS for sustain, and enough Crit to help.


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TKDbeast

Senior Member

04-05-2013

You're kidding, right? IE is da bomb (not the web browser). Play ADC, get some crit, buy IE, and kill everything.


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awkwardbowman

Senior Member

04-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMyBassCannon View Post
If my first item was a BF Sword, then yes this is true.

However, my first two items are Zeal and Vamp Scepter. I'm one of those players that builds intermediary items instead of rushing each big item in a linear progression; the drawback is I don't grow in leaps, while the benefit is that the consistent growth keeps my early game solid.

And it justifies buying IE after those items, because I have enough LS for sustain, and enough Crit to help.
And if you noticed what they were arguing, they were saying first item. I interpreted that to mean you rush a first item. If you do it your way, then yeah, go for it. But if you rush one or the other, BT will be better as a standalone.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

04-05-2013

Yup, as a rushed item, BT has more early game potential while IE is a better piece afterward. Holy nuggets, there's actually a choice for the carry's build order now.


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Ill Darkistino

Senior Member

04-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockJockey View Post
JustMyBassCannon


So here's our answer, Blood Thirster is better than Infinity Edge in both cost efficiency and dealing damage, as well as keeping the bearer alive. While IE has a 25% chance to deal damage, it is entirely possible to not have a single Critical Strike. So for a first pick item between IE and BT, BT wins.
Not entirely true. Riot realized a long time ago that stats based on %chance is risky because of the risk of dealing no crits for 100 attacks, or dealing 100. So the critical strike system is designed so that your crit chance goes up the more attacks you have without a crit, and your crit chance drops when you have long streaks of crits. That's why I run 2 crit chance runes on my AD pages, and I count up how many hits I had without dealing a crit before engaging , to maximize my chance of dealing that extra damage.


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Quepha

Senior Member

04-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ill Darkistino View Post
Not entirely true. Riot realized a long time ago that stats based on %chance is risky because of the risk of dealing no crits for 100 attacks, or dealing 100. So the critical strike system is designed so that your crit chance goes up the more attacks you have without a crit, and your crit chance drops when you have long streaks of crits. That's why I run 2 crit chance runes on my AD pages, and I count up how many hits I had without dealing a crit before engaging , to maximize my chance of dealing that extra damage.
i've never heard of that and can find no evidence of it.


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awkwardbowman

Senior Member

04-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quepha View Post
i've never heard of that and can find no evidence of it.
I can't find the source either, but I do remember hearing that before.


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