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forcing team play and the tribunal

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Hicjacet

Junior Member

04-03-2013

A few suggestions based off game play experiences. First I'll narrate a few of my most toxic LoL moments for use as examples later.

Most toxic game ever was actually a team win. Started in team select, team choose all squishy summoners and didn't call any positions, in an effort to be a team player I choose my only tank, Olaf. when the game starts they call top and mid forcing me into bottom lane against two range classes. Level two I get caught in a minion blockade while running and get focused by the two ranged. Teemo then shouts,"DON'T DIE OLAF". Next engagement goes about the same but I get away almost dead so I recall Back to the nexus to restore health. Now the teemo see's the 2 level difference he has on me and yells,"/All: Report Olaf AFK and Feeding".
I respond by asking,"How am I afk". Mind you I am between the middle and outer turret running back at the time.

The next death comes under the outer turret as the two ranged summoners get a taste of me and Quinn uses vault to get the kill. Teemo yells,"OLAF STOP FEEDING".

I ask,"how can I get xp if I can't be at risk, its either get reported for feeding or afk".

Teemo's reply is,"Yes"

Being behind now and severly frustrated I head into the jungle catch up a little, buy a couple of items. All the time hearing about feeding and my 0/2/0, by now others have joined into the mix. Jax,"get a kill Olaf". Still I'm behind in levels and the other team is starting to wander so I buy and place wards. While placing one I get ganked by the enemy team, Teemo,"OLAF STOP FEEDING". Jax,"OLAF". Ashe,"OLAF". Soon after those wards save the team from getting ambushed by the enemy team hiding in the bushes at mid. The encounter ends in my team winning the first big team fight. Still I'm catching grief for no kills.

While trying to farm a bit more I go into the wraith camp, Mordekaiser walks by and area effects them taking all the cs. Ashe and Jax do the same thing to me in mid lane. Then comes my first kill, Its a 3-vs-3 fight in mid. I get the kill and Teemo,"OLAF NOOB KS". By this time I really don't know what to do I'm trying to still be a team player and hoping for the game to end. I continue buying wards while gearing up, get another kill, also called a ks.

The game ends with a team victory my final k/d/a is 2/5/4. Teemo is still requesting the enemy team and our team report me for feeding.

Toxic Event II

This one not as bad but still left me really doubting if I should continue to play. I'm Playing Twisted Fate mid. I port in front of a fleeing enemy with stun up and get the kill, Shouts of KS ring out. Next time same kind of situation same person I don't port in front, and they're like,"WTF no help". I'm now at the stage of not knowing what to do, so I just start making sure I secure the kills. Now the person is asking the other team to report me for feeding. I ask,"how is 2 deaths feeding"? His reply was your feeding yourself and KS'ing. In the end I'm 8/3/8 the team wins but again it was a rough game. continued in after chat with him and another person asking me to be reported for Feeding.

Toxic Event III

I have a fairly stable internet connection, generally run pings between 18-30, but even so sometimes it drops. In one instance I was dropped for less the a minute and come into a teammate asking in /all "please report kog'maw for afk". I went on to be 18/7/11 with a team victory. Not sure if anyone reported me or not its just the sinking feeling that without really giving me a chance to come back the person is asking for a report.

Two of these events lead me to believe the whole k/d/a cs system should be changed to be team only. It is supposed to be a team game not a game about one player. To this end I suggest making all gold and xp a team thing. Every kill benefits the team not just one individual, every death hurts the team not just one member. A system like this would change the whole "META" of the game forcing people to co-operate more as a team. Kills and CS would still be important but knowing who got the kill shot would eliminate a lot of the tribunal cases. A lot of people seem to get really bent by k/d/a going into rants after the miss one kil shot. I've seen plenty of rage quits after rants of KS. A team system wouldn't require too many changes the only difference is instead of one person on a team being a dominant force the whole team would gain strength incrementally through kills. While the other team may be able to counter balance this through CS. The personal k/d/a should still be seen in tribunal for evaluation purposes but never in game or profile.

After all the way to win the game isn't takedowns or minions killed, it's about nexus destroyed. I can't tell you how many times the team with a dominant kill ratio lost. I know when I look at someone's profile and their takedown is 2 tiers above their wins, I just figure they love Teemo and Akali.

Next is the Tribunal itself. I have ZERO problems with the concept, more in the execution. I have participated and fluctuate between 87-93%. My suggestion for the system as a whole stems from the fact that there are no repercussions for false reports and in the categories.

Lets start with the categories. first off get rid of intentional feeding its the most over-used of all, not to mention its basically assisting the enemy. So keep "assisting enemy" its more broad and may reduce the use of Feeding as a catch all. I believe this would have stopped toxic event II from occurring, that along with a more team-centric k/d/a system. Plus an example of its over-use from an actual tribunal case I had. In the case chat one team member specifically asks the team to report the person as a feeder since being unskilled wouldn't get them banned. Its this kind of toxic behavior that discourages new people from learning. I know I shudder at the thought of trying a ranked game after the rancor I've encountered in normals.

Next I propose a new category "ASKING for REPORTS/HONOR". After reading some of the cases I find the most toxic players aren't the ones reported but the ones doing the reporting because in so many of the instances they start asking for reports early on, see all the of my toxic events. I have seen people offer honor if you report, or honor me and I report. Anything that a troll has for leverage they will use therefore I believe penalizing people for asking should be considered a very hostile action.

Next is the pardon/punish system. I have no problem with it but believe it needs to be extended. Many time out of five tabs I would pardon four of the five, and that's what I'd like the ability to do. If someone is going to be punished it should be for the right reasons. Many time s that one toxic event leads me to believe that some of the other reports where from the same players that where in the toxic game. An example of why I think this is a person that went on a rant on 3/21/13 has a second report from the enemy team on 3/22/13 reporting abusive language. Upon reading the chat log the person only said 1-3 things none to the enemy team and nothing abusive, leading me to believe someone on the opposing team was present for the earlier rant. This example brings me to punishing false reports.

I think that people who are reporting people falsely are just as toxic as some of the most toxic players. Why, because they are trying to ruin someone else's reputation. Of course some of the false reports may be brought out if we could see the pre and post chat, but it seems 20-30% of the reports are of a vindictive nature, I lost so I'm going to report this person. When reading through the logs in addition to being able to flag each tab as pardon/punish a new tab for false report should be added. After a certain number false reports they should get a point, points add up and at a certain point a person gets a warning about making false claims. The false report would be used in instance like enemy team reports someone for abusive language and that reported never said anything to the enemy team. If the reported was talking smack but its deemed not punishable then its pardoned, not a false report.

Another option is for tribunal action on players from logs. Many times the most toxic player in the game isn't the person who got reported. If while reading the logs we find something reportable we should be able to flag it. these flags would probably have to work more like false reports in that they use a point system, maybe after a number of points one report is enough to bring the case to tribunal instead of multiple reports.

I know there is a 20 second delay before voting but it should be longer. I spend 30-60 minutes to go through 20 reports. Why, I read the chat logs though sometimes a couple of times looking for context. Like I said sometimes the most toxic person on the team isn't the reported.

I realize some of this may not be possible, but what is I believe could lead to a more team centered game with fewer toxic players.


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OhBoyItsaMegaman

Senior Member

04-03-2013

First of all, you have nothing to worry about from those reports. There's no way you'd get punished for those games.

Summoner's Rift is already very heavily team-oriented. The strategy of the game would shift a bit if gold and exp were divided across the whole team, but nothing about the change would require more cooperation. The phenomenon of screaming "KS" is limited to people who are bad at the game or misunderstand it. If there are people who rage over KS, it is wrong to change the rules of the game to avoid triggering their rage. Furthermore, removing the record of who died the most (and replacing it with team deaths) would make it much harder to determine guilt in an intentional feeding case.

Honor trading is to be reported using the Spamming category; there was an announcement about it way back when the Honor program launched. And yes, report categories could be cleaned up a bit. They've already said that they're planning to do that. But in the end, there is not a whole lot of actual consequence to having unclear categories. Most players never end up in the Tribunal, even the players who get reported once in a while for nonsensical reasons.

Riot already tracks false reports. The more times you submit reports against someone who's done nothing wrong, the lower your report weight. Reports entered by someone with a low report weight count for less so it takes many more reports to result in a Tribunal case. In addition, there has been one ban wave hitting all of the worst offenders of report abuse and there will probably be others if false report levels increase again.

Even though Riot was careful to individually examine each account before going ahead with that ban wave, and even though they targeted only the very worst offenders, there was still a huge outcry immediately afterwards from tons of people saying "Now I'm scare to report, I'll never report again, innocent people got banned just because they reported a lot of people who harassed them." I can hardly imagine how much worse that outcry would be if the false report bans happened automatically based on Tribunal votes.

Having players vote separately on each game would unfortunately mean that judges would be forced to spend more time on each case and that would result in fewer votes per person per day. According to Riot, the important thing is that judges correctly determine whether the player is guilty or not, and neither game-specific verdicts nor punishing multiple players from the same case would make that happen more accurately.


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Hicjacet

Junior Member

04-03-2013

Thanks for the information, I haven't been playing long maybe 2-3 months. I wasn't really worried about getting reported, it's mostly the hostility with which it's thrown around. Seems like its the first resort of everyone in the game is to threaten or request reports.

as for team k/d/a in place of personal I did say it should still be tracked for tribunal purposes only meaning that would be the only place it shows up. While the game is team oriented, it seems the players are more concerned with kills and cs than really winning.

Again thanks for the information.


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f3zz1k

Senior Member

04-03-2013

Yea, get used to being reported... most don't make it to tribunal anyways. I will say that it is possible to get unfairly punished, and trolls that report you can get you punished as well as it happened to me... Got reported/punished where two of the games I had gone 0/11 and 0/13, one was my team hardcore trolling, the other was my team sucking and other team hardcore shutting me down... People threatened to report me in those games and I remember thinking "no way I'll get punnished for doing so poorly in games like this, anyone with a brain could see that there was no intentional feeding"... ironic isn't it?

The community is toxic, tribunal is toxic.


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