What is this kass thing?

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tominix55

Senior Member

04-03-2013

For a non dominion player, would you mind to explain this?


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Warmeat

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Senior Member

04-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by tominix55 View Post
For a non dominion player, would you mind to explain this?
when a player can't kill a kass because he ports thru a wall this is where they QQ for nerfs,hes good to ninja turrets and reappearing mid cap, but he is still really squishy and other champs make it a non factor like Jayce or Urgot bot. any ADC with last whisper and sanguine just destroy him too although he gets away alot before you can kill him, to me this is ok since it leads to alot of wins since he running half the match with no health. if you got players worrying more about controling and defending turrets hes a non factor. he banned in DD tourneys more for his unique ability to port farther than all champs and everyone would QQ and say you have no skills for playing him so pros dont even wanna touch something like that.


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Wolf Un1t

Senior Member

04-03-2013

Super high mobility with ult. It basically means that he can be in every fight on the map since he can ult and pick up relics to get mana back. Constantly gank bot but still be there when the enemy pressures your top after figuring out you were bot.

Increased mana regen and constantly going back to base mean that you have a lot more mana in SR, so you can use ult a lot more freely.

No laning phase remove what is undeniably the main thing that's holding him back from being broken in SR (his terrible pre-6 laning phase)

His ult can jump over almost every wall on that map, meaning he can come out of nowhere and burst you for a 3rd of your health with you having no real defense to it.

His combo prevents any real counterattacks since you're both silenced and slowed for a very long duration.

There is pretty much no counterplay to him outside of large amounts of CC and burst (pretty much just Vi) or champs with burst and as much mobility as he does and doesn't get obliterated by slow and silence (pretty much just Fizz and Kha 'zix)

He's absurdly difficult to kill since you can cast riftwalk when it's off cooldown pretty much all the time due to him usually being built with a lot of mana and the relics + increased mana regen. Also people generally build him tanker in dom. He's practically unkillable unless he makes a massive mistake or you blow a ton of cooldowns to kill him before his ult comes off cooldown again.

Honestly, Kassdin is a broken as hell champ that is only really balanced in SR because his pre-6 is probably the worst in the game, he can't spam rift all he wants due to mana limitations, and being able to be everywhere at once stops being as useful when teamfights start breaking out. Dominion doesn't really care about any of those things, so what's left is a champ that instantly wins every trade he's a part of, is extremely difficult to kill, and can be pretty much everywhere he needs to be.

IMO, he really needs a rework, even ignoring the fact that he pretty much removes any semblance of balance in blind pick dominion. (if you think I'm exaggerating this, look at these threads and count how many of them are complaining about Kassadin. I counted 6 on the first page alone, and it's usually more then this) He's honestly the most unfun champ to play against for me even in SR. There is no "trading" with kassadin in mid lane since he just rifts up to you and does his combo. He feels like he should be a hero in dota 2 rather then a champ in lol due to his greatly polarizing strengths and weaknesses as well as how unfun he is to play against.

/rant. Sorry, but as a massive dominion player, I really had to get that out.


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NamKim

Senior Member

04-03-2013

Kassadin is easily considered the most brokenly OP champion in Dominion to the point that he is hotly being debated to become permanently banned for the Dominate Dominion tournaments.

His kit consists of an AoE slow, a long silence, and an ult that can jump over any wall or pit in Dominion.

Kassadin's ideal build is a tanky-mana-CDR mage. The Cooldown reduction allows Kassadin to use his ult every five seconds. Imagine having an advanced form of flash that has a longer range and you can use it every FIVE SECONDS. The mana is because Kassadin's ult is normally limited by the large cost of mana it requires to use it repeatedly. However, on the Crystal Scar, mana issues are reduced. Building mana on Kassadin further reduces the mana issues to the point of Kassadin being able to spam his abilities, specifically his ult. The tanky build is where most people mess up on. A lot of people mistakenly build Kassadin as a glass cannon. That's not the point of Kassadin. If people built Kass glass cannon, then they would be happy. Kass is built tanky so even if he is caught, he can survive long enough to ult away.

His entire kit pretty much goes together to make Kassadin the best escape champion out there along with being a champion that could pretty much infinitely kite his opponents. Starting at mid-elo, ganking bot is very important. However, Kassadin can pretty much travel the distances from top to bot at no time at all. Meaning, Kassadin can practically be fight at top, gank bot, and go back top before anything can realize what's going on.

I was told that Kassadin does have one counter, a ranged AD Carry. However, do the the nature of Dominion, most ranged AD Carries do poorly. Personally, I never even seen a match where a ranged AD Carry could fight back.

Kassadin does what no other champion can, he can effectively turn Dominion into a 6v5.

If you think this is ridiculous nonsense, you are mistaken. Majority of the Dominion community agree that Kass is so OP that he absolutely needs to be looked at by Riot. Not only that but people go as far to say that Kass should be the first thing Riot should fix on Dominion. The people that says this? You can recognize them by the fact that they have a little badge that tells you that they were Diamond in season 2. These players know what they're talking about. If you ever gone against a person who knows how to use Kassadin properly, it's a frustrating match where things goes from bad to worse to even worse fairly quickly.

So yeah, Kassadin's kind of a big issue on Dominion.


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tominix55

Senior Member

04-03-2013

Thanks for the answers, I honestly thought he was played bot or something. Btw what would a normal dominion kassadin build? Just for the sake of asking


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NODAVG

Senior Member

04-03-2013

you are exaggerating this a little. I play dominion a lot, both on US and EU servers. And I noticed one thing: most of the rage towards him comes when people are trying to kill him at all costs and chase him. People are raged when they see Kassadin entering game, and can't play properly - like a bull seeing red color.

If you keep yourself calm and remember you only need 3 points, you can handle him. He is just one champion, not a Chuck Norris. He needs team to help him.

First step is having someone who can handle bot. Yorick, SInged, Heim, Khazix, Olaf... Someone who can survive Kass gank. Don't send bot somebody who can be burst down easily. My favourites are Singed and Yorick.

Second step is making Kass pay for coming close. And he needs to come close. Best is some DOT + blackfire torch. Or Nidalee spear being almost invisible because of wall. Or Darius bleeding. Or play Talon...


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Warmeat

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Senior Member

04-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NamKim View Post
Kassadin is easily considered the most brokenly OP champion in Dominion to the point that he is hotly being debated to become permanently banned for the Dominate Dominion tournaments.

His kit consists of an AoE slow, a long silence, and an ult that can jump over any wall or pit in Dominion.

Kassadin's ideal build is a tanky-mana-CDR mage. The Cooldown reduction allows Kassadin to use his ult every five seconds. Imagine having an advanced form of flash that has a longer range and you can use it every FIVE SECONDS. The mana is because Kassadin's ult is normally limited by the large cost of mana it requires to use it repeatedly. However, on the Crystal Scar, mana issues are reduced. Building mana on Kassadin further reduces the mana issues to the point of Kassadin being able to spam his abilities, specifically his ult. The tanky build is where most people mess up on. A lot of people mistakenly build Kassadin as a glass cannon. That's not the point of Kassadin. If people built Kass glass cannon, then they would be happy. Kass is built tanky so even if he is caught, he can survive long enough to ult away.

His entire kit pretty much goes together to make Kassadin the best escape champion out there along with being a champion that could pretty much infinitely kite his opponents. Starting at mid-elo, ganking bot is very important. However, Kassadin can pretty much travel the distances from top to bot at no time at all. Meaning, Kassadin can practically be fight at top, gank bot, and go back top before anything can realize what's going on.

I was told that Kassadin does have one counter, a ranged AD Carry. However, do the the nature of Dominion, most ranged AD Carries do poorly. Personally, I never even seen a match where a ranged AD Carry could fight back.

Kassadin does what no other champion can, he can effectively turn Dominion into a 6v5.

If you think this is ridiculous nonsense, you are mistaken. Majority of the Dominion community agree that Kass is so OP that he absolutely needs to be looked at by Riot. Not only that but people go as far to say that Kass should be the first thing Riot should fix on Dominion. The people that says this? You can recognize them by the fact that they have a little badge that tells you that they were Diamond in season 2. These players know what they're talking about. If you ever gone against a person who knows how to use Kassadin properly, it's a frustrating match where things goes from bad to worse to even worse fairly quickly.

So yeah, Kassadin's kind of a big issue on Dominion.
at lvl 30 most ranged ad carrys know how to handle a adc to destroy Kass i did it with quinn other day i had Kass trying to gank but i hurt him so hard so fast because of all the armorpen i had i was a joke then he was useless, so yes a good ranged adc carry bot will eliminate kass ganks and even then if he is ganking bot there no way he can make it top to help the 4v3 in time to just be alone when he reaches top, i think what really makes Kass good is the fact most player who play him keep getting center buff because of his mobility.but really i dont care if hes in my matches against or ally. so just because you and other players cant counterhim doesnt mean he needs a nerf, as for DD tourneys who cares what they do, if anyone of them picked kass people will say they have no skill and pros are not gonna do that, kinda how no every gofler used the long putter even though it was better because it made them look like they had no skill, this is the only reason Kass is not in DD tourneys because any good players can counter pick him and there are some really good counter for him like Jayce and Urgot both have great ranged out of fog of war to keep hitting kass as he is running.


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NamKim

Senior Member

04-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warmeat View Post
at lvl 30 most ranged ad carrys know how to handle a adc to destroy Kass i did it with quinn other day i had Kass trying to gank but i hurt him so hard so fast because of all the armorpen i had i was a joke then he was useless, so yes a good ranged adc carry bot will eliminate kass ganks and even then if he is ganking bot there no way he can make it top to help the 4v3 in time to just be alone when he reaches top, i think what really makes Kass good is the fact most player who play him keep getting center buff because of his mobility.but really i dont care if hes in my matches against or ally. so just because you and other players cant counterhim doesnt mean he needs a nerf, as for DD tourneys who cares what they do, if anyone of them picked kass people will say they have no skill and pros are not gonna do that, kinda how no every gofler used the long putter even though it was better because it made them look like they had no skill, this is the only reason Kass is not in DD tourneys because any good players can counter pick him and there are some really good counter for him like Jayce and Urgot both have great ranged out of fog of war to keep hitting kass as he is running.
I have no idea where you are coming up with these conclusions. Especially since competitive Dom players say things that are the exact opposite of what you say.

Fancy Wolf carried himself to Platinum by playing ADC and he said he initially tried to get ADC to work on Dominion and said it was incredibly difficult. Urgot and Ezreal are the only two ADC that I am aware of that sees competitive play.

PainKillar stated
Quote:
Kassidan - He's been a massive problem nearly since Dominion started, responsible for a great amount of people leaving due to the frustration of the overwhelming advantage a semi-competent Kassidan can bring to the team. Due to there not being a laning phase to keep him in check, he's able to build mana tank and out-damage, out-chase, out-gank, out-cc, out-escape, out-tank, and out-class every champion by a sizable margin. He either needs a rework, to be disabled on this map, or a sizable nerf to put him in check.
Sauron ranks Kassadin as the #1 champion you can play at top.
Sauron puts Kassadin on "Always Ban" status
Sauron stated
Quote:
The holy grail of "Overpowered" on Dominion
Sauron also went as far to say
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If you feel there's a counter to Kassadin that isn't another Kassadin, feel free to show it. But he's been a permaban in Dominion tournaments since December 2011 for good reason.
Fancy Wolf made it incredibly obvious in his tutorial videos (currently 2) and on the forums that Kassadin is so OP that he should be permanently banned.

Koravel34 states
Quote:
You do not balance anything that needs balancing. Kassadin is broken on this map, Kha'Zix is little better. It would be a situation that we could partially resolve via the use of ranked, however, you refuse to give us ranked, saying that the playerbase isn't large enough, and to fracture it even further by splitting ranked and casual players would not be a good thing.

I, and practically every other dominion player, disagree. Ranked would separate the "try-hards" those of us who treat it as an actual legit game mode, from the casuals, those who play it for fun, (absolutely nothing wrong with that, btw). It would allow us to ban the most egregious champions, such as Kassadin, and thus provide temporary relief for a problem that apparently is very difficult to fix.
Naotasan stated
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No updates in sight, games still won at Champion Select because of a lack of attention from Riot. (Go on the Dominion forums and search Kassadin if you are confused).
Buwberry stated
Quote:
Kassadin- Broken, 3 second blinks with scaling dmg on blinks = 1 comboed. He's too hard to kill even if he makes a blink mistake. Needs a 5 second cd on his ult that can't be reduced by cdr. 5 second blink is fair. + remove attack speed from passive. It punishes casters way to hard that are trying to kill him.
And I already stated my opinions above. Oh, and before anyone says this because it's getting really annoying. I use quotes from high elo players to support my thoughts. They do not determine what I think. They merely support it. I have no problem disagreeing with them. Heck, I disagree with Buwberery saying that Nidalee is balanced. She's on the strong/OP in my opinion.

These are not "no-name" players. These people are well-known in the Dominion community because they interact with it frequently and each player listed has played over a thousand games. If there was ranked Dominion, there is no doubt that these players would reach Platinum/Diamond League. Heck, some of them went on other maps like Summoner's Rift and Twisted Treeline, where they were out of their element, and still managed to carry themselves into Diamond.

If you can deny that Kassadin is brokenly OP, you never went against a semi-competent Kassadin. Fancy Wolf sometimes queues with a guy who spams Kassadin and you can hear Fancy Wolf complaining how he's playing Kassadin wrong. When Fancy Wolf felt like being a dick, he played Kassadin and intentionally did a bad build in order to make the fight somewhat "fair." He still dominate the game and barely died.

I've beat Kassadins plenty of times but each time I know that they are not playing Kassadin correctly.

Kassadin isn't banned in every DD tournament because he's "counterable." Why the hell would they ban someone that's counterable? The two champions you listed, Urgot and Jayce, who are supposed Kassadin counters see regular competitive play. If those two champions really did counter Kassadin, there's no point in banning Kass.

And no, it's nothing about the center buff that makes Kass OP. At the very most, it's just another addition into making Kassadin more tanky.

Edit: I'm not exaggerating. There's a reason why Kassadin is the #1 complained champion.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

04-03-2013

One thing to address is why Kass is broken on DOMINIION and not SR. There are several reasons for this:

a) No laning phase. Kassadin is an alright mid in SR but not amazing. Silence nuke is annoying but fairly short range compared to many skillshot champs. Very few Kass will actually dominate their lane and most will "lose". They aren't very gankproof either pre 6. This means they will lose some gold/XP and be a bit behind.

In dominion however this doesnt happen. There is no chance to beat the kassadin down. The kass has full gold/XP.


b) More Mana. Free chalice effect in Dominion is really nice for Kass. All he needs is a tear to have lots of max mana and 7 MP5 and he is set! No need to B to get another mana refill.


c) Less map awareness - In SR you know when Kass has left mid. In dominion theres a lot more jungle and less idea overall where enemies are at. You wont get an MIA ping. This makes his ability to gank and move around much stronger.

d) Ganking bottom and capturing random nodes is MUCH easier in dominion, vs split pushing in SR with kass. while Kass is slippery in SR as well as dominion, he cant really easily take out towers on his own or take map objectives.
But in dominion, he can easily capture towers all by himself, forcing enemies to come back to deal with him, while he easily escapes.


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Catnium

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Senior Member

04-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by tominix55 View Post
For a non dominion player, would you mind to explain this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYnNRCxClns
shows everything can be riftwalked

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njiLR-WrHO4
pretty much shows what this does in dominion
note this guy isn't even build as manatank so he's actually quite squishy
he'd have died if that wall wasnt riftable at that angle


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