I am a horrible Person (A Discussion-Starter on Report Categories and their problems)

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

dajjbomb

Junior Member

04-02-2013

Good Morning/Evening/Afternoon Lady/Gentleman. This is a post about A) Why I, personally, believe myself to be a horrible person (Which, I promise you, is actually a important point.) and B) How realizing A made me think, for a long time, on a LoL behavior system (namely, the Report functionality,) and C) A quick and dirty brainstorm on how to improve B. I believe that my thought process could possibly benefit the community, and rather than just write it down on a piece of paper and do nothing, I figured posting it here could be more beneficial.

. . .Nope, I can't find a better intro than that. I apologize.

A) Why "dajjbomb" is a horrible person:

In name, I'm a level 26 "newb," with 120 wins, who is still in the process of learning the ins and outs of this wonderful game called League of Legends. My account has temporarily received the "Honorable Opponent" and the "Teamwork" ribbon during the early days of my climb to 30, but I no longer have this reward. My honor numbers are 21/25/104/72, which I think is extremely good for a level 26. This is my only account, and I have never received a ban from Riot (although I have put a personal ban on myself at one point.) From this, you can infer that I am someone who is slightly better than others at this level, and that during play I have a upbeat, positive on everyone involved in the game.

In fact, the sole reason why I still capable of maintaining a account on this game is due to the fact that Riot made the decision that I cannot report myself. I can tell you that I have noticed the lack of this button on many occasions.

In fact, I can tell you what exact element of the Summoner's Code I should be reported under:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Support Your Team
Encourage players who are having trouble, and congratulate those who are playing well.
I am guilty of this because, when I have trouble, I call myself a noob and attempt to make me feel bad at every single opportunity I can find. Now, you may find this funny, or may find this weird, or may think I'm a emo who wants to commit suicide (Spoiler Alert: I'm not.) But I take my personal performance seriously. Too seriously to be precise.

Observe, my latest match. I was planning on playing a support Nunu with a ADC Draven. Unfortunately our Nasus DCd early and Lux and Teemo couldn't agree who would go mid. Teemo decided to end the argument by Rage Quitting. Nasus eventually re-connected, but he couldn't really do anything, cause, well. . .he's Nasus.

You may think this is a un-winnable game. I disagree. It became a un-winnable game when I did some of the stupidest fraking (that's legal here, right?) stuff I've ever done. I KNEW that there was a thresh, yet I clearly overextend with Nasus and get bursted by Diana after a well-placed Death Sentence. When my entire team dies and I start running away, I get a glimpse of the untouched, un-utilized locket in my inventory. I'm 2 seconds slower than I should be. When I see a thresh Death Sentence, I unconsciously think "I WANT THAT," and flash into it.

In fact, it got to the point where I said this. In All chat:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dajjbomb
Please report me for assisting enemy team, cause that's all I've been doing, whether I like it or not.
Now, thankfully the other 8 are better people than I and attempted to "cheer me up." One person said "You aren't doing it intentionally, so it doesn't matter."

Hmmm. . .the gears in my mind start to analyze that statement as the game progresses. I end with 1/6/1. Horrible, except for the fact that I died more than anyone else anywhere. That makes it unacceptable. I once again am surprised by the fact that there is not a report button next to my name. Ah well. I go to report Teemo for leaving (I usually don't do so unless it's a obvious Rage Quit, as Leaverbuster picked them up already, but this was a rage quit, so it's getting reported.) And then I see:

"Griefing: Assisting Enemy Team."

NOTE: THERE IS NO MENTION OF THE WORD "INTENTIONAL" ANYWHERE IN THAT DESCRIPTION.

I, clearly, deserved this report. I was assisting the enemy team, and if I did not play in that game, the chances of victory for our side would more than likely increase, due to the lack of feed money.

Now, of course, you may be thinking "Aw, you just had a bad game, stop killing yourself." But that's the thing: According to this description, I should be reported for having a bad game. I'm pretty sure everyone at Riot does NOT want this to be the case, yet this suggests otherwise. Hmm. . .how bad is this really is?

B) Why the Report "Headings" are awful.

So, I got to the "Report a player" help page, and get a list of all the headings. I also see this nice line:

Quote:
Originally Posted by https://support.leagueoflegends.com/entries/20213576-Reporting-a-Player
Reports are used in our Tribunal system where users like this are judged by their fellow Summoners.
Hmm. . .as far as I'm aware the tribunal uses "The Summoner's Code" as law. So, of course almost every report that comes through should be based on one of these guidelines. Let's see:

"Harassment: Offensive Language Including, but not limited to language that is vulgar, obscene, sexually explicit, or racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable."

. . .Nope, don't see it. Is the word that is substituted by the word "frak," in and of itself, Offensive? Yes, of course. Can be used in a way that is in line with The Summoner's Code? In my opinion, Yes (although not often.) Otherwise we wouldn't have the option to remove the chat filter.

"Harassment: Verbal Abuse - Including, but not limited to, language that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, or otherwise objectionable."

Breaks IV: Enjoy yourself, but not at Anyone Else's expense. And breaks it fairly well. But there's a difference between the 2. If you're jungling, I can steal your buffs with smites all day. There's no category for that. Perhaps assisting enemy team, but if the troller ends up using the buff to win a lane, does that really count as assisting the enemy team?

"Griefing: Intentional Feeding - Purposely dying to enemy champions or turrets to make the opposing team more powerful while putting your team at a disadvantage."

Technically, this does Break I:Support your team. However, note that "Intentionally Feeding" is never uttered in the Code.

"But dajjbomb, it's an obvious point, they don't need to put it in there directly!

Of course, and we know it to be. The code is a living document. However, how can one, from just reading that pillar of the code, know that "Intentionally Feeding" is punishable? It doesn't even DEFINE it.

"Griefing: Assisting Enemy Team This includes using all-chat or Summoner abilities to assist the opposing team in any way."

This is more like breaking I: Support Your Team. If you're helping the other team you're not supporting yours.

Unskilled player skipped, because it's not applicable in the tribunal.

"Refusing to Communicate with Team Applies to any Summoner that refuses to use chat or pings."

Ok. But where's that in the Code? It's not there! Technically, I can say "I'm going support Sona," and then steal all the cs and get a BF sword. I'm communicating, that's for sure. I'm just making that communication valueless. Technically, that doesn't fall in any of these report categories (unskilled being the only exception,) but this case would technically never see the tribunal.

I'm going to stop now. You see the point. The problem with this system is that there's a change in terminology. And it can result in things that should be reported but not against the code, and things that shouldn't be reported but are against the code. So. . .what system do we use? Do we use "Refusing to Communicate with Team" or "Support your team"? It doesn't seem like a big step, but there is a HUGE difference between communication and support.

C) So. . .what do you propose?

"It's simple, we, uh, kill the batman. . ."

The first solution is obvious: make every report option (with small exceptions) a element of the summoner's code. Instead of reporting for "refusing to Communicate with Team" report for "Failure to Support Team." This, however, requires the use of some terrible device called "dealing with the client code." Which may not be the best and/or fastest fix.

The second is more subtle: Explain to us how each report category fits into the code, and add a option for a "Other Report." The tribunal should not have to worry about what "law" to use, that is something Riot should clarify. The "Other Report" would allow for code breakages not indicated via a report category to be noted.

Another option is to require a explanation. Have the reporter module scan for a summoner's code violation. If it doesn't throw it out. If it does use it.

There's other solutions. But this thread is getting too long, and I'm in danger of violating II: Drive Constructive Feedback (Which does state to make feedback "concise.") So I'm going to stop here.

TL;DR: We are forced to report using a different set of rules than the tribunal uses to punish. Is this OK, or should we change the system to something better? Discuss!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Player Someone

Senior Member

04-03-2013

I agree, I am just like you. I wish riot would just punish me for all my evil deeds and get it over with. I am guilty.Thanks for your post.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sereg Anfaug

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

04-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by dajjbomb View Post
Good Morning/Evening/Afternoon Lady/Gentleman. This is a post about A) Why I, personally, believe myself to be a horrible person (Which, I promise you, is actually a important point.) and B) How realizing A made me think, for a long time, on a LoL behavior system (namely, the Report functionality,) and C) A quick and dirty brainstorm on how to improve B.
Just queued up, so I don't have the time to read the rest of the post just yet, but my first thought upon reading this line was that you have the wrong idea. You're trying to improve B, when you should be trying to fix A.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

OhBoyItsaMegaman

Senior Member

04-03-2013

I'm disappointed. This entire post seems to be about finagling over the exact wording of report categories and the code. There's nothing of substance here. Who honestly thinks that changing "Griefing: Assisting Enemy Team" to "Griefing: Intentionally Assisting Enemy Team" would improve reporting accuracy or Tribunal judgment accuracy?

Simply put, lack of instruction is not a problem right now. Anyone who got snagged by the catchy thread title knows that you don't deserve to be labelled a horrible person or a rule breaker for making play mistakes. It goes without saying. Are there players out there who falsely report innocent people (or Tribunal judges who falsely punish innocent people) for committing play mistakes? Yes, though it's questionable just how often it happens. Would even a few of those players change their decision based on the wording of the report categories? I find it very difficult to think that could be true.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

PHoToS999

Senior Member

04-03-2013

"It's simple, we, uh, kill the batman. . ."

I'm with you, tc. Let's take him down.


I kinda agree though, there does seem to be some disparity with the in-game report and the tribunal.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kinvaras666

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

dajjbomb

Junior Member

04-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBoyItsaMegaman View Post
I'm disappointed. This entire post seems to be about finagling over the exact wording of report categories and the code. There's nothing of substance here. Who honestly thinks that changing "Griefing: Assisting Enemy Team" to "Griefing: Intentionally Assisting Enemy Team" would improve reporting accuracy or Tribunal judgment accuracy?

Simply put, lack of instruction is not a problem right now. Anyone who got snagged by the catchy thread title knows that you don't deserve to be labelled a horrible person or a rule breaker for making play mistakes. It goes without saying. Are there players out there who falsely report innocent people (or Tribunal judges who falsely punish innocent people) for committing play mistakes? Yes, though it's questionable just how often it happens. Would even a few of those players change their decision based on the wording of the report categories? I find it very difficult to think that could be true.
1) Yes, this is about the wording of report categories and the code. The example I gave was the first and clearest example that came in my head. The rest of the story was context.

2) I don't think that adding the word "intentional" would change much. I think that changing it to "Failure to Support Team", an element directly in the code we use, would. Think of it as if the police arrested some one for charge A, but in reality the wording the law uses calls it B instead, and the Police use term A because they like the sound of it better. It makes more logical sense for me, as a player, to use that set of terms.

This especially applies to trolling. If you see smite/clair Sona, you almost certainly have a troll. Under what category could you classify that in the reporting system? Is she truly assisting the enemy team (especially if said Sona isn't donating them to the other side?) Debatable, as a Sona jungle has probably been successfully tested at least once in this game. Am I supporting my team? Not at all.

I hope you see my problem. I understand that the context may not be the best: I wanted to include one concrete example of how this has personally impacted me, and that was the best I could think of. I also know this won't solve every problem. But maybe it's a start.

Also, to all who are reading this, I sincerely apologize for the wall of text (the preview made it look smaller than it was.)