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Amatuer division and Tourney changes

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Fancy Wolf

Senior Member

04-02-2013

NOTE:"!:!: THESE ARE UNOFFICIAL!!! MERELY MY SUGGESTIONS!!!

Alright guys, so after much discussion between some folk. We need a way for DD to hype itself up, If Riot isn't going to help we need to take things into our own hands to help the tournament grow bigger.

First and foremost, We need new teams, but not only that! We need new teams to stick around week after week. The major loss of new teams is having them go against PECS,Cheese,FTV,AEL,Ampu,Domnation... and getting stomped 400-0. New teams should never have to face reigning champs or podium holders. The other major problem is lack of knowledge of the Meta, which I am already trying to alleviate with my vids. but some way to spread words to teams about the simple fact of revive. We need to create a separate bracket of teams known as "Amateur League/Division" for DD and only have those games be casted (eventually maybe getting both brackets casted). Whats more exciting for a team than to be on the main stage playing, but not only that, actually having a challenge of equal skill as opposed to a 400-0 stomp. This will keep new teams interested as close games gives them hope of maybe winning if they put in a bit more practice.

Not only that, but we can have the winners of the amateur league face off against the lower seeded Pro Division to see if they can get a promotion into the Pro Cup, this annihilates what I like to call the "PECS Syndrome", of 1 team constantly destroying and winning every tournament (or the majority) with no teams hoping to get to the top spot. If you were new to DD would you want to continue playing if you knew the same teams always took 1st-4th every weekend? Having a higher bracket to shoot for also creates incentives for teams to constantly be improving, If a 2nd place team watches the winners of the amateur cup make it into the pro cup and they just had a close game, it instantly creates that drive for them to want to achieve pro cup as well.

Prize money? not a problem! simply split the prizes we currently have! 1st and 2nd of pro cup get 1st and 2nd prize money. 1st and 2nd of amateur cup get 3rd and 4th place prizes. This will prevent people from being content with 3rd and 4th all the time and save the money for the real top players.

Second, casters. From an outside source, and someone who studys the game alot this is what I received after he studied DD for awhile. "The VoDs were very bland in terms of casting, it was ok at best, but it was very biased and had multiple attacks on players build's or strategy's, instead of questioning it(the builds and strats IE, "It seems that Riven picked up another brutalizer, shes going to be very squishy but her damage is going to be astounding, if she can make it work shes going to blow things up" as opposed to " Riven got another brutalizer? shes just going to die instantly she really needed to buy more bulk for this situation, that was a poor desicion.&quot. The casting wasnt very professional in the least bit and was more like watching someone ranting about the people playing rather than watching a sports cast.".

If I were not in charge of my team or had such an important role such as making calls, I would simply manage the team and become a Caster for DD... Sadly there is no one who could take my place or rather... no one I feel comfortable leaving in place of me. So me being a caster isn't likely to happen.


Third, Champions and Summoners. I touched on the summoner portion slightly before, and making sure every team knows revive is Meta should be posted somewhere under tournament rules... We need some way of informing newer players what is good/bad. I had the suggestion brought up to me by my outside source, to ban revive. But I knew (as well as the pros I asked) Garrison would take its place and everyone would run exh/garrison, which personally I would be fine with. Exh Garrison is strong but the first go to for most people would be exh ignite or ghost ignite etc. but this is something teams could pick up and learn over time and wouldn't completely destroy them if they dont run 5 exh/garr. Currently If a team of players takes revive vs a team with no revive the full revive team will most likely win. whereas a team of 5 gar/exh vs a team of mixed summoners it would come down to who could make the plays happen in the right spots and it wouldn't be AS big as a disadvantage to not having revive.


Champions. Kassadin is now perma-banned. Anytime a champion has 100% presence in ANY tournament that should tell you something is wrong. I dont know why this is even disputable coming from a balance standpoint. We know he is broken and free win in DD and had a 100% ban rate (until lucky Dominus 2 times grabbing him). Any champ in the past who was 100% picked or banned (urgot/ezreal) was nerfed within a few patches by Riot, but if Riot isn't willing to Balance dominion we need to do it ourselves, aside from the "QQ kass is broken" complaint we as a tournament shouldn't be allowing something like that to slip through in the first place, It is bad for the tournament and it is bad for Dominion in general.

Jayce/Nid would be my next targets although I think well built team comps could shut them down fairly well.

If Riot does happen to step in even to make minimal changes, the major things that need to be fixed are:
-Respawn timers: Ya.... They suck
-Penetration, too much everywhere
-20% healing reduc.- Would make some champs viable again but would create nunu terror, maybe pull it back 10% or make the grievous wounds items stronger.
-Fury regen or gain rate increased drastically per level (for Shy/Renek/Tryn)



I want to see DD succeed and become a major tournament that will gather hundreds of teams and get Riots attention.
Until we fix the major issue of getting new teams, and breaking down that entry barrier, we are going to continue to stagnate and not grow into the the major E-Sport that we can make this mode into, if Riot doesnt want to help then so be it, we can still do the best we can to make DD hyped!


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Nyx87

Senior Member

04-02-2013

Define "Amateur". Lets say i create a team of Myself, Ashen Vulpine, Kirilian, XIII Xemnas, and Stormfallen, would that be an amateur team? I sub for FTV, with Kirilian on Golly's team and Stormfallen is familiar with tournament play albeit long ago, while the other 2 i have never heard of or seen(sorry guys). Does this make an amateur team?

(FYI, those listed were the first 4 threadstarters on the Dom forums)

Also, why not just double the number of tournamants period? What is stopping you from running another tourney on another day?


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kirillian

Senior Member

04-02-2013

I'm still torn on the perma ban for Kassadin...I feel like it's 1. a slippery slope (so what happens when someone decides that jayce or lulu is just too much too?), 2. a cursory glance at the dominion forums or a question asked in DD chat immediately informs you that Kassadin is a bad champion to let through bans. 3. As people have pointed out before, purple team already has a slight advantage in picking second, forcing them to ban him out slightly reduces this advantage.

However, as Fancy pointed out, two weeks in a row, we played against SR teams that didn't ban out Kassadin. What do you do there? Leave that sucker on the table for the other team?

I dunno...it's really hard for me to say what to do. I suggest that if we end up NOT making Kass a permaban, we add it to the DD tourney rules...just HIGHLY suggest banning Kassadin or something...maybe in a huge font or something: "Failing to ban Kassadin is a stupid mistake on your part and complaints will be ignored"


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stormfallen

Senior Member

04-02-2013

Anyone who's won prize money in DD should not be able to participate, IMO. And if a team is dominating the Amateur tourny, then that's the time to bring them up to the higher level tourney.


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FaeriiFalcon

Junior Member

04-02-2013

I haven't been able to convince my friends to make a team with me to compete in DD because they're afraid of getting stomped. They'd probably change their minds if there was an amateur league. I really hope this happens.


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Gungho Gun Lion

Senior Member

04-02-2013

Quote:
kirillian:
I'm still torn on the perma ban for Kassadin...I feel like it's 1. a slippery slope (so what happens when someone decides that jayce or lulu is just too much too?), 2. a cursory glance at the dominion forums or a question asked in DD chat immediately informs you that Kassadin is a bad champion to let through bans. 3. As people have pointed out before, purple team already has a slight advantage in picking second, forcing them to ban him out slightly reduces this advantage.

However, as Fancy pointed out, two weeks in a row, we played against SR teams that didn't ban out Kassadin. What do you do there? Leave that sucker on the table for the other team?

I dunno...it's really hard for me to say what to do. I suggest that if we end up NOT making Kass a permaban, we add it to the DD tourney rules...just HIGHLY suggest banning Kassadin or something...maybe in a huge font or something: "Failing to ban Kassadin is a stupid mistake on your part and complaints will be ignored"



Well Kassidan is banned by most teams if you perma ban him you have the chance to ban a different champ and you dont have to worry about him


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kirillian

Senior Member

04-02-2013

Quote:
Gungho Gun Lion:
Well Kassidan is banned by most teams if you perma ban him you have the chance to ban a different champ and you dont have to worry about him

Right...one of my points was that Purple side has pick/ban advantage by having last pick AND being able to pick up two strong champions at once...so purple side can game banning by allowing 3 "OPs" through and get two of them. They also get the potential to counterpick botlane in some cases...one mitigating factor to this is that they HAVE to ban out Kass...

I dunno...like I said, I'm pretty torn.


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Ray Xu

Recruiter

04-02-2013

what is dominatedominion?


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Golly

Senior Member

04-02-2013

Quote:
Nyx87:
Define "Amateur". Lets say i create a team of Myself, Ashen Vulpine, Kirilian, XIII Xemnas, and Stormfallen, would that be an amateur team? I sub for FTV, with Kirilian on Golly's team and Stormfallen is familiar with tournament play albeit long ago, while the other 2 i have never heard of or seen(sorry guys). Does this make an amateur team?

(FYI, those listed were the first 4 threadstarters on the Dom forums)

Also, why not just double the number of tournamants period? What is stopping you from running another tourney on another day?


It's Kirillian's team. I'm just along for the ride That being said, I love this idea.

I've longed for the old days of Cal-o, Cal-m, Cal-i divisions and separations.

"Amateur" is just a word to describe a new team. Yes, if you stacked it with seasoned people, it would start off in the "bronze league", but I'm assuming that if you had say any arbitrary number of wins in the bronze league... like... 3 weeks in a row you rank first, or you win an overall season in bronze, you get bumped up to the next division. Then you compete in this division until you win a season.

I am working on a website that automates this process. I am doing it for Dominion Mentor, but with the plans to open it up to anyone wanting to create and manage a league.

I support this Fancy, and am eager to help in any way I can.


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Ray Xu

Recruiter

04-02-2013

Quote:
kirillian:
Right...one of my points was that Purple side has pick/ban advantage by having last pick AND being able to pick up two strong champions at once...so purple side can game banning by allowing 3 "OPs" through and get two of them. They also get the potential to counterpick botlane in some cases...one mitigating factor to this is that they HAVE to ban out Kass...

I dunno...like I said, I'm pretty torn.



If speaking like that they are able to pick 2 strong champions,

1 kassadin > wukong + lulu

What if there are no "strong" champions remaining?
What if there is only 1 "strong" champion remaining?
What is a "strong" champion?