Karma Supporters Unite!

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Charofry

Member

03-31-2013

I also posted this on General Discussions, but it might get lost there.

A few of my friends and I have been talking about the new Karma rework, and we've come up with solutions to the problems that people have with this "new and improved" Karma. If you like these solutions, bump and repost them in your own thread. I'm wanting to swamp Riot with what we, as players, people, and summoners, want for this incredibly underpowered and overhyped champion rework. I'll go through each of her skills and end on why she has lost her viability as a support. (Spoiler Alert: Most of the problem is with her ultimate and passive.)

First off, her passive, as many people have noticed, is just a spot to fill for her ultimate. Cooldown reduction for Mantra through autoattacks and spell attacks on champions just isn't enough, early or late game, to add a sort of satisfaction while playing her. That cooldown reduction could have easily been an added effect for her ultimate, and her old passive was a what made Karma a unique and incredibly fun to play champion. To successfully create a more viable, and more unique Karma, Riot needs to bring back her old passive and put the current one with Mantra to create a sense of satisfaction while playing her. If not replacing the current passive with the old one, then Riot can just make another one if they think it would work better than the old one, because that's what they do in Character Development.

Second, the new Q with mantra is all current Karma players have used 90% of the game. RQ is the current progression of damage, giving it an almost "Lux" feel, when comparing it to her Lucent Singularity. An AOE that slows and then does damage after a certain time? Hmm, sounds eerily similar. I'm just saying that either creating another skill for Q, or making it a more unique skill shot that doesn't remind me of another champion would improve the style Riot was going on about for the release forums. The ones discussing her new look, kit, and story, remember? New skills doesn't always mean better skills.

Third, her W wasn't an entirely bad move on Riot's part. A root was exactly what Karma needed in her kit, and although her "clothesline" skill was really, really cool, it didn't fit her play style and caused a lot of awkward situations trying to position yourself and your partner in a way to do maximum damage. Her current W gives her significant damage, and a much needed CC for her other spell to hit (can't hit an enemy with a shield.) So kudos to you, Riot, for getting at least one of her spells right.

Fourth, her E, the shield, is really the most viable when used with Mantra in a teamfight. Hardly is it useful in lane without the Mantra buff, because it wastes a much needed Mantra. That could be used to slow AND damage the opponents when fighting in lane, or rooting an overextended ADC.

Finally, Karma has turned away from being an interesting and unique support, to a lackluster, boring, and genetic APC. When supporting, the shield deals damage around the target ally and give nearby allied champions a shield as well. This would be awesome, minus the fact that your Mantra is still on cooldown. So nothing will really happen until Mantra is back up again, which will be in 45 seconds (with no cooldown reduction, due to the fact that most supports do not spam their skills, which is what Karma needs to have a viable Mantra-Gathering Fire based lane.) When supporting, her root is useful, even not when Mantra'd, so again, kudos to Riot. Her Q is only viable when supporting when Mantra'd, which gives the opponent a solid 30+ seconds to poke until the shield bomb is up, and then they'll quietly wait until the Mantra is on cooldown again, and so the cycle repeats. She has absolutely no viability as a support now.

That's all, and I'd like to thank thedeadlypickle for his comments and ideas on this subject. Feel free to comment, spread the word, whatever. I just want Riot to think about some of these problems. Add to the list if you want, and post some of these ideas on other walls. If enough people want this, Riot might move faster to please the people. Supply and demand, you know?


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StormMaster

Senior Member

03-31-2013

too much stuff too read, someone got a shorter more concise version?


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

03-31-2013

I like new karma. But the only problem I have is that her passive doesnt do exactly what it says. If it did it would be amazing.


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Charofry

Member

03-31-2013

I'll shorten it down to bullet points for ya.

1.) Her old passive needs to come back, or at least a form of it, and move the current passive to a useful part of her ultimate.

2.) The only viable way to play is with a Mantra'd Q. Too much time to waste using it for any other skill.

3.) Her W is alright. It wasn't a mistake, so good job Riot.

4.) Her shield is most useful with a Mantra, but you don't get very many of those due to the ridiculous 45 second cooldown.

5.) She's lost her viability as a unique support. Riot has pushed her to more of an APC mid, which kills her usefulness as a support in bottom lane.

Hope that's easier on the eyes.


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TheDeadlyPickle

Senior Member

03-31-2013

Riot didn't actually accomplish what the players wanted. We wanted a buff, not a rework that left her even more useless.

She can now only be played as an AP mid. She gets outshined by other AP mids. She is now useless.


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Ganiklis

Senior Member

03-31-2013

bump,

any changes would be good. i loved the old karma, she just doesnt have the same feeling at all anymore.


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TheInnocentdevil

Senior Member

03-31-2013

The problem I see is that her q does alot of dmg which is good, but during a team fight how exactly is she supposed to hit the carries unless they are horribly out of position. The line skillshot gets caught on the tank line everytime and the splash area means that if someone is a couple steps in front of everyone theres just no way they get hit.


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67chrome

Senior Member

03-31-2013

Karma feels mostly the same to me - she has some QoL buffs with her Mystic Shot+Iceborn Gauntlet thing being better at poking, having 2 slows and a speed boost makes her better at kiting, but she still lacks the feel of really having an ultimate. It would be really nice if Mantra allowed her to cast things on cooldown - LeBlanc's ultimate seems quite ultimate for that capacity, Rengar's ultimate at least feels ultimate for that as well. With Karma? Her empowered abilities don't really feel ultimate. They seem like the stronger QWE ability in anyone's kit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charofry View Post
Second, the new Q with mantra is all current Karma players have used 90% of the game. RQ is the current progression of damage, giving it an almost "Lux" feel, when comparing it to her Lucent Singularity. An AOE that slows and then does damage after a certain time? Hmm, sounds eerily similar. I'm just saying that either creating another skill for Q, or making it a more unique skill shot that doesn't remind me of another champion would improve the style Riot was going on about for the release forums. The ones discussing her new look, kit, and story, remember? New skills doesn't always mean better skills.
It's not hard to find skill equivalents with any ability on any champion in any AoS game, I'm not sure why you're complaining about this particular point. Especially when it doesn't operate exactly the same way - Karma does AoE damage, then more AoE damage after a short delay. Lux fires her skill - then does AoE damage after a short delay. Beyond that, it's pretty easy to narrow down a wide range of champion kits to similar ability patterns. Most mages and supports have a single-target nuke, and area-effect nuke, a utility/flavor skill that either does no damage or negligible damage, and an ultimate that generally serves the purpose of winning team fights - usually through dealing AoE damage and applying CC. Generally there's CC applied on a skill shot or some wind-up effect within the QWE ranks somewhere as well.


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Charofry

Member

03-31-2013

When comparing Karma's old skills with her new ones, I feel like the new Q is the biggest upset out of all of them. I mean, the fans that did damage or healed, or both if properly placed, was an interesting skill. A skill shot that does damage, or if it's buffed, damages, then slows, then does damage again, isn't as unique. And that doesn't even account for the lack of Mantra after you use it. One Mantra is the biggest problem, and I'm sure I wouldn't be as picky if there were two stacks of Mantra to use, but right now there is too much emphases on using your Ult at just the right time, and then "buying it back" through hitting champions. It's just not a useful game mechanic. Especially for a viable support.


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Naokazu

Senior Member

03-31-2013

I don't disagree with anything you said; you just missed that her base skills without mantra do too little, Q and W do too little damage, E does too little shielding. Her old passive could remedy this, but I don't think Riot wants to bring it back.

Really, her E's nerfs were threefold; first it's weaker, duh, second she doesn't have her AP passive anymore, and third she doesn't level it first anymore since shield-bombing is no longer her preferred method of harassment (unless playing 0CS support). All of this together make it next to worthless outside of the mediocre speed boost, making her a lot squishier.


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