Is Zac "OP"

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Whoreton

Member

03-30-2013

First off this isn't a raging post, I haven't gone against Zac yet so this is why I want to discuss how powerful he really is.

I never jungle, maybe once a fortnight, if that, but yesterday I tried out Zac in the jungle (twice).
My first game I went 7/0/5 and my second game I went 12/2/25 now is this because I got lucky? Is it because people didn't know how to counter him (I had played him on the PBE so I was somewhat familiar with his abilities) Or is it because he is "OP"?

Playing him didn't feel that he was, yet somehow I managed to carry? This also isn't a "Look how amazing I am" thread, I am genuinely wondering why I did good, when I never jungle.


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BrotherCaine

Senior Member

03-30-2013

IMO his slingshot needs adjusted for fairness. With max cdr (and why wouldn't you get max cdr right now?) his slingshot is on a 7 second cooldown @ lvl 5.

Either the windup for launch needs to be slowed down so the enemy has time to throw a disable or the cooldown needs increased.


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Mantheon Mandrop

Senior Member

03-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherCaine View Post
IMO his slingshot needs adjusted for fairness. With max cdr (and why wouldn't you get max cdr right now?) his slingshot is on a 7 second cooldown @ lvl 5.

Either the windup for launch needs to be slowed down so the enemy has time to throw a disable or the cooldown needs increased.
It is slow, you know how long it takes to get max range?


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AWildRaticate

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Senior Member

03-31-2013

I think he's a little weak, if anything. Very close to being balanced, but slightly weak. He falls behind very easily and has a very hard time getting kills by himself. Due to the fact that he loses chunks of HP when he attacks his ability to chase is abysmal since you don't have time to get the blobs and go after someone at the same time. I think they need to make his Q slow stronger so that you at least have a small chance to grab your blobs while chasing. As it stands, even best case scenario, it seems like I'll chunk off at least half my HP to get a kill on a fleeing enemy and, more often than not, they get away anyway.


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Stonedsoul

Senior Member

03-31-2013

What "AWild" said. His ganking capabilities are beyond amazing, but his kit makes him vulnerable to snowballin (tanky AP jungler...). As for his passive, its utterly useless. In skirmishes, if you are dead then you lost it and they take their time killing the goos, in team fights they are taking out by random damage before they make it halfway. The issue is that unlike the bird's passive, these goos can be 1shot with autoattack.


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Umezete

Senior Member

03-31-2013

I think its more along the lines he punishes you for not knowing his kit.

I was murdering people all day on his release because they didn't know the goobs he dropped could be stepped on, nor that they restored 4% of his max health. (I reduced a hec to raging after killing him multiple times living with less than 200hp.)

I don't think he's op, I think he's viable as a jungle and would be dissapointed if riot felt the need to nerf him. His e is only on 7 sec cd if max cdr at rank 5, tbh I don't see how that is op in any way as his kit makes him an ap bruiser with the need to stick to his targets. He doesn't have burst damage really, he has to snowball for that and I don't see him being a dangerous ap assassin so I don't see a gap closer being op on him. He can stick to a target, but then again he NEEDS that in order to not be useless.

I will say his ganks are fantastic once he has ult but the same could be said for malphite, amumu, vi, or even hecarim. His e is similiar to shy's ult in how it can jump walls but its the most important non-ult in his ganking kit so I think its fair. He has cc, he has damage, but I don't think he's more op than any other tanky jungler with both of those.


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StormMaster

Senior Member

03-31-2013

ZAC is so easy to destroy solo top lane


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masterdragon481

Senior Member

03-31-2013

I disagree with the previous posts, I believe he is actually overpowered, though remember that he has only been out a short time and people have not yet learned how to adequately deal with him.

That being said, I have seen a lot of games played with him in it. Now I don't know about his top lane potential, but his jungle presence is absolutely insane. His fundamental mechanics mean that he has infinite sustain in the jungle, and his low cooldown, %max health AOE skill allows for easy clearning. He has phenomenal AP ratios, but because of his % health skill, can build straight tank and still deal massive damage, like Amumu. But after buying some spell vamp, cdr, and spirit visage, Zac just becomes completely unstoppable. I have seen spirit visage, and spirit of the spectral wraith being core items on him (yes, the mana gets wasted). He can easily gain massive amounts of health back, making him very very hard to kill (he would lose 1v1's against people with grevious wounds). His E, which gets down to a 7 second second is capable of going from red buff to dragon/baron pits, can go over the pits *and steal these objectives) with a 1.5? second charge up time. Even without charging it all the way, it is a phenomenal escape skill.

To try to clean up my argument here, Im going to compare him to Amumu. Amumu is a tank jungler that has (or at least had) very good damage despite building pure tank. In addition, Amumu is known for his ulti and the massive CC it brings to the table. Zac has similar properties, but no drawbacks. He still builds tank and does very good damage, and between his E, Q, and R, has a lot of CC to hurt the enemy team. His chasing potential is drastically better, because opening distance against his E is almost impossible. In addition, he is not blue dependent or really red dependent, meaning shutting him down in the jungle is hard to do. He can gank from strange places and has incredible mobility in the jungle. and again, he has sustain that means he never truly needs to go back to base to heal, his ability costs are offset (and even overcome) by his passive naturally, before using items to offset this even more.

In a nut shell, he has very high sustain, no dependence on buffs, very good damage, and a large amount of CC, and great chase potential. He won't stay the way he is.


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Durzaka

Senior Member

03-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherCaine View Post
IMO his slingshot needs adjusted for fairness. With max cdr (and why wouldn't you get max cdr right now?) his slingshot is on a 7 second cooldown @ lvl 5.

Either the windup for launch needs to be slowed down so the enemy has time to throw a disable or the cooldown needs increased.

You realize the cooldown doesnt really matter right?

With the charge up time, if you START casting while they are in melee, you will just barely catch them at max range unless they use a speed boost, then your gap closer is useless.

The slingshot is an initiate, you arent going to use it multiple times in a fight.

And as already said, the charge time is really freaking long, and he cant change directions while charging.


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AdderTude

Senior Member

03-31-2013

CCs are bugged on him. Every time I've thrown a disable on him during Let's Bounce!, he continues bouncing despite being stunned, silenced, etc. and even then, the CCs don't go for the entire duration (e.g. a 1-second stun only activates for not even half a second during Let's Bounce!). He really should've stayed in the PBE to work out the kinks that are present in the live servers, particularly with crowd control.


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