Fiora vs Elise top

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fulol

Junior Member

03-28-2013

Inspired by this thread: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2956409 , I would like to ask how to top as Fiora against Elise. Up to now, I was able,sometimes, to win (or draw) top lane about any other champion I faced, except for her. Please don't answer "Don't play Fiora", note that in the thread I linked nobody wrote "Don't play Riven"

Approach 1: Get ton of pots or 2 beads and 3 pots, try to farm safely. Doesn't work - neurotoxin can't be parried (and animation is relatively similar to Elise regular attack so sometimes I parry preemptively), Elise is able to get me relatively low and then jump and kill me (or force me back). She can even harass me successfully when I try to cs under tower, which with Fiora is already hard.

Approach 2: Dota style. In Dota when melee champion faces a ranged one he accepts he won't cs at the beginning but then around 3th-6th lvl he jumps the enemy champ. If he gets lucky he gets a kill, and is able to cs for some time, otherwise he makes the enemy low enough that the enemy can't come too close otherwise he will be jumped again and killed - this allows the melee champ to cs for some time. This also doesn't work - Elise is far stronger in duel than Fiora. If I jump her, she can Cocoon me (hard to miss in melee range), but even without it, in spider form her W gives her a bigger attack speed bonus than my E!!!, which allows her to just easily out damage me (this even makes me think that AD Elise may be more viable than AD Fiora, but thats a different topic). Of course my R is totally useless as she can just repel it. Moreover, even If I catch her without mana, she still can out-duel me. Additionally, she nearly always can disengage if she wants with Repel or Cocoon, whereas if I pop my E, get 3 attacks and then try to run, she just closes the gap with Repel (even when I had Boots of Swiftness and she had Sorcerers Shoes, I still weren't able to escape her, once I saw I am terribly losing the duel).

Another advice given to Riven in the thread I linked, was to wait the lanning phase out, since later in teamfight phase, Riven is a lot stronger than Elise. The problem is, it seems not to be true for Fiora - if Fiora doesn't bring to teamfight some reasonable damage (which she can only get via farm) she brings nothing.

So, for all other champs one of the two approaches above (if executed flawlessly) seem to work, but what to do against Elise?

(I don't even mention all the details that in spider form she has better mr and armor than me, has spider-lings to help, before even going into spider form she still (often) can dump on me her human abilities and so on).


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fulol

Junior Member

03-29-2013

bump


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AxeRaider

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Senior Member

03-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by fulol View Post
Inspired by this thread: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2956409 , I would like to ask how to top as Fiora against Elise. Up to now, I was able,sometimes, to win (or draw) top lane about any other champion I faced, except for her. Please don't answer "Don't play Fiora", note that in the thread I linked nobody wrote "Don't play Riven"

Approach 1: Get ton of pots or 2 beads and 3 pots, try to farm safely. Doesn't work - neurotoxin can't be parried (and animation is relatively similar to Elise regular attack so sometimes I parry preemptively), Elise is able to get me relatively low and then jump and kill me (or force me back). She can even harass me successfully when I try to cs under tower, which with Fiora is already hard.

Approach 2: Dota style. In Dota when melee champion faces a ranged one he accepts he won't cs at the beginning but then around 3th-6th lvl he jumps the enemy champ. If he gets lucky he gets a kill, and is able to cs for some time, otherwise he makes the enemy low enough that the enemy can't come too close otherwise he will be jumped again and killed - this allows the melee champ to cs for some time. This also doesn't work - Elise is far stronger in duel than Fiora. If I jump her, she can Cocoon me (hard to miss in melee range), but even without it, in spider form her W gives her a bigger attack speed bonus than my E!!!, which allows her to just easily out damage me (this even makes me think that AD Elise may be more viable than AD Fiora, but thats a different topic). Of course my R is totally useless as she can just repel it. Moreover, even If I catch her without mana, she still can out-duel me. Additionally, she nearly always can disengage if she wants with Repel or Cocoon, whereas if I pop my E, get 3 attacks and then try to run, she just closes the gap with Repel (even when I had Boots of Swiftness and she had Sorcerers Shoes, I still weren't able to escape her, once I saw I am terribly losing the duel).

Another advice given to Riven in the thread I linked, was to wait the lanning phase out, since later in teamfight phase, Riven is a lot stronger than Elise. The problem is, it seems not to be true for Fiora - if Fiora doesn't bring to teamfight some reasonable damage (which she can only get via farm) she brings nothing.

So, for all other champs one of the two approaches above (if executed flawlessly) seem to work, but what to do against Elise?

(I don't even mention all the details that in spider form she has better mr and armor than me, has spider-lings to help, before even going into spider form she still (often) can dump on me her human abilities and so on).
elise is going to win most lane match ups, where you cant out sustain her/ out burst her.


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Brennivin

Senior Member

03-29-2013

I consider myself pretty damn good with Elise, but there was ONE Fiora that just wrecked me with her Q, it did a LOT of damage early on that I wasn't expecting. u.u


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Rick182

Senior Member

03-29-2013

Elise is a lane bully (and winner). That's mostly her job if she is a laner: to shut down someone on the other team. Later in the game she can still be useful, but most champions that she craps on during laning phase will just be more useful than her anyway.

That's not the case with Fiora because she is in a bad spot competitively. I kinda like Fiora, and I've seen some fed ones and it's scary. But this is me being honest with you: Elise and Fiora are in way different tiers competitively.


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Svikarinn

Senior Member

03-29-2013

Elise is a dominant top, Fiora is really weak right now. Best advice, dont play the matchup. But since you won't listen to that, run exhaust ignite, take a dorans blade, and run full ad runes, attempt a first blood and kill her as soon as she gets back to lane.


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VeigarOfDarkness

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Senior Member

03-29-2013

Don't pick fiora.


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Madotsuki

Senior Member

03-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svikarinn View Post
Elise is a dominant top, Fiora is really weak right now. Best advice, dont play the matchup. But since you won't listen to that, run exhaust ignite, take a dorans blade, and run full ad runes, attempt a first blood and kill her as soon as she gets back to lane.
This. You can also use a first Lunge to jump to a minion and dodge her stun. Other possibility would be to get a red pot and bait her into fighting you, the sudden burst of HP might be surprising to her and you'd still win the fight. If possible, try to leech some EXP from wolves so you hit 3 before her.


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Foonakie

Senior Member

03-29-2013

Put it through Deadliest Warrior, 1000 matches to see who is deadliest.


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TheRarePandaBear

Senior Member

03-29-2013

i play alot of elise i know whos weak against her and who's stong "not many characters" but fiora is probably one of the weakest to elise besides darius. fiora is made to all in and she has no escape elise has a built in stun and a rapple which counters your ulty. to counter elise with fiora or survive laning phase i would ask for a jungle gank before she hits lvl 3 because at lvl 3 she will have her rapple and it will be very hard to lock her down. as fiora to safely farm under tower i would make sure you get jungle to camp top and clear out the elises wards because if your passive she will push and her having no wards up there she would be hesitant to dive or even come up to harass you. shes becomes really strong starting lvl 5 where her q really starts to hurt dont ever go all in on her she will win easily and when i play against elise and i know i will lose i start 11 pots 1 wards if purp side place it in tri bush when minions reach and if on blue side in the bush beside the wall in the river. you may ask why those places its because you will be playing passive and the jungler would be there since your so close to your tower. im not sure if this is good enough to help you but this is how i get countered in lane as elise


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