Ashe manamune hate?

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Dpaladinx

Senior Member

03-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SacredMesa View Post
Ashe's Q will stacks manamune better than any of those champs.


That said it's still a trash item on her.
True, but you ARE chewing up a lot of mana here. Even with manamune/muramana, the mana regen will not be enough to pay off with her Q.


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FlowyS

Senior Member

03-28-2013

Muramane would probably be stronger than the traditional build at the point where Ashe just got 750/750 mana and the weapon fully charged, or mid game.

Compared Muramana + Phantom Dancer VS Infinity Edge + Zeal only and the damage on Muramane is higher because Infinity Edge is fairly weak early on because it doesn't have the support of AD/AS/Crit to make the damage skyrocket. Mathematical analysis should prove that this statement is true.

As for mana issues, I personally have no problems with mana on Ashe building zero mana items. I think mana issues depends on a person's mastery of the Q toggle. Being able to toggle Q on and off saves huge amounts of mana.

In conclusion, rushing Muramana is stronger than rushing Infinity Edge at mid game. For mana issues, it is a matter of the ability to quickly toggle on and off the Q button.


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Sharknado

Member

03-28-2013

Ashe's Volley has a low CD at max level, 4 seconds if I remember correctly. Have you tried just building a Tear of the Goddess and then going into bigger items like blood thirster?

I play Kha and I find there's no reason to rush into manamune and the Tear keeps my mana up for spammy poke time.


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AcornGames

Senior Member

03-28-2013

Quote:
Dude, did you bother to read ANYTHING that anyone else posted at all? ADCs have THREE damage stats...AD, AS, and CRIT. Three things multiplied together are always going to be better than focusing on two.
Your post is the only one that mentioned any of that, and yes I read it.

Quote:
She needs lifesteal for sustain, crit, AS as well as AD. Manamune severely slows down getting any of the first 3
The math on my post was not meant to compare items, and at no point did I say it gave more or less DPS than another item. Infact I pointed out directly that it was not a good laning item.

My post was meant to show the stats Muramana would give Ashe at level 18 by itself and how it might fit into a new build and playstyle. If you disagree with anything ive posted that's fine, the whole point of the forum is to discuss strategies and build, but theres no reason for you to get all huffy puffy just because someone offered a different view on it.


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Tim Allen Talon

Senior Member

03-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
Dude, did you bother to read ANYTHING that anyone else posted at all? ADCs have THREE damage stats...AD, AS, and CRIT. Three things multiplied together are always going to be better than focusing on two.

She needs lifesteal for sustain, crit, AS as well as AD. Manamune severely slows down getting any of the first 3, even though it is technically a decent item.



I dont think toggles work to charge tear anymore. And its NOT a trash item on her, as I showed through math. Its simply not ideal for her needs. It IS workable though suboptimal.
Toggle works

It works with singed poisons

It's irrelevant tho

Unless you went urgott or Jayce Adc


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powwder

Senior Member

03-28-2013

you can charge tear with anything that consumes mana


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SeCKS Egai

Senior Member

03-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Submortimer View Post
Community, I have a question. I consider myself to be a fairly good ashe player: I regularly have a high KDR, I know how to farm effectively, and I can snipe with her arrow of doom when I need to. My question is this: why does there seem to be this huge belief that Manamune isn't useful/good for her to use?

It may just be my style of play, but I have found that I regularly do much poorer in games where I try to push for a more "standard" ashe build, instead of building into a manamune early in the game. So far, I have yet to really come across a time where having the ability to spam volley mid game hasn't won my team the fight.

Thoughts on this? Am I doing it wrong, or have I just missed a key element of how she works?


For the curious:
- my runes are mana regen, armor pen, CDR, and AD quints
- Masteries are 21/3/0
- endgame build is usually muramana, bloodthirster, phantom Dancer, infinity edge, berserker greaves, and optional 6th item (generally last whisper, guardian angel, or another phantom dancer)
Based on this, if you were to compete in ranked, you'd end up somewhere in bronze.

ADCs are pressed for slots because of everything we have to build. Muramana doesn't offer enough, even with it toggled on when you consider adcs are primarily relying on critical hits with basic attacks.

Following your current playstyle will only ingrain bad habits. Mana management is important on any adc.


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Rakaydos

Senior Member

03-29-2013

Just tried a couple games of utility-ash, often as a top lane character. You have to play cautius, but with exaust/flash you can usually get out of a melee gap close before you die.

Vamp Scepter, tear and Boots into Muramana, Frozen Heart, Banshee Viel, and BorK. Resist-tanky with %-enemyHP lifesteal, and two on-hit procs, while bringing significant CDR to your ECA.
On less AD focused team, I've considered replacing Frozen heart with Iceborn Gauntlet, for more slows and the damage proc, but I havnt actually tried it in game yet. All tree games with it I've won, though... albet at a bronz level. :/


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Rawrful

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Senior Member

03-29-2013

Ooookay, no one has mentioned the biggest weakness of the Manamune build yet, and no one is pushing the power curve argument either.

Muramana is cool, it adds efficient damage to your autos. But it adds magic damage. And magic damage can't crit, and isn't effected by your pen. Which is a huge weakness to your build; you don't get any pen items at all, so anyone who builds a few defensive stats counters you. To fit a pen item in you are going to have to give up an important item. Do you give up IE, BT or Phantom? You need a defensive item, and you need boots, so there is no room for pen with it. You could shuffle your build around to use a BotRK to get attack speed and lifesteal, but then you would be lacking crit. Without crit, you deal nowhere near the damage of a crit build.

Now, the power curve argument is another good one. When you go back for the first time and buy Tear and the enemy buys a Dorans or a Pickax or whatever, you are WAY weaker than him in lane. Any good player will take advantage of this fact and work hard to zone you because you will lose every trade and every fight until... Well, until you get a fully stacked Muramana and some levels and more items. 10-15 minutes later, you might be equal in damage and have infinite mana. But if the enemy has pushed their advantage, you will get there even slower, and they will have gotten fed off of you (Minions or kills).

Really, Ashe doesn't have mana issues. At all. You don't need a Muramana. If you want to abuse the **** out of Muramanas potential, grab Urgot. He has mana issues, he loves tanky mana items like Glacial Shroud (And Frozen Heart, and Banshees) which scale well with the Muramana passive. Oh, and his q procs the Muramana toggle at absurd range and autohit with lock on. So you have a skill with a 2 second cooldown (And you are building CDR) that procs Muramanas damage in addition to applying it with auto attacks.


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SeCKS Egai

Senior Member

03-29-2013

Actually people mentioned both already just not necessarily in the same detail.

I mentioned it doesn't offer enough even with the toggle - you detail out why.

People early have mentioned several times that it puts you behind to pick up a tear or to rush that manamune first.


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