Does the energy guys need a support?

Yes... 6 75.00%
No... 2 25.00%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll

[Champion Concept] Katogin - Recovery Scout

12
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Leo Tomita

Senior Member

03-25-2013

Innate - Under Pressure : Katogin can attack allies, but instead of damage he press chi points to heal a ally champion. Healing ally champions with under pressure refunds Katogin's energy, this effect stack up to 3 times.

Heal: 3, 5, 7% Allied Champion total health over 3 seconds.Cannot occur more than once per target every 15 seconds.
Energy Refund: 10, 20, 30 after reaching 3 stacks it stops refunds energy.
at lvl 1 Katogin's first attack will refund 10 energy, second attack 20, third attack 30
at lvl 16 Katogin's First attack will refund 30, second 60, third 90...this is kinda high rigth? see his energy cost


Q - Unlock/Lock : Katogin's next basic attack will trigger a effect depending on the target, this can heal and grant MS to allies or slows and damage enemies.

Damage: 50, 65, 80, 95, 110 (+0.45 Total AD)
Heal: 50, 65, 80, 95, 110 (+0.35 Total AP)
MS Buff and Debuff: 45, 50, 55, 60, 65% over 3 seconds
Energy Cost: 100, 95, 90, 85, 80
Cooldown: 7

W - Break a Leg : Katogin charges forward attacking all champion on his path, ally champions receive bonus defenses and enemy champions have their defenses lowered for a short period.

Damage: 65, 80, 95, 110, 125 (+0.65 Bonus AP)
Range: 550 units
Defenses Buff and Debuff: 20, 25, 30, 35, 40% for 2 seconds
Energy Cost: 75
Cooldown: 10

E - Way of the Thousand Fists : Katogin uses his knowledge about anatomy to increase his own attack speed. It doubles the heal effects, and all basic attacks on enemies slow them.

AS Passive: 20, 25, 30, 35, 40%
AS Active: 60, 70, 80, 90, 110% for 3 seconds
Energy Cost: 90, 80, 70, 60, 50
Cooldown: 10

R - Haketsu : Katogin concentrates for one second and perform a massive attack with both hands, enemies in a cone ahead of him are knockback greatly, allies receive a huge heal.

Damage: 150, 200, 250 (+0.6 Bonus AD) + 10% Total Health as Physical Damage
Heal: 200, 250, 300 (+0.55 Bonus AP) + 5% Total Health
Knockback: 500 units
Energy Cost: 150, 125, 100
Cooldown: 60

Quote:
Base Stats:

Heatlh: 500 (+75) = 1904 at lvl 18
Health Regen: 10 (+1.25) = 32.5 at lvl 18
Attack Damage: 45 (+3) = 99 at lvl 18
Attack Speed: 0.7 (+3%) = 1.778 at lvl 18
Energy: 200
Armor: 25 (+1) = 43 at lvl 18
Magic Res: 30
Range: 125
Move Speed: 350
Leo Tomita Index Page


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The Shard

Junior Member

03-25-2013

Basically a Kennen like champion who can support.
You might want to check mine out for some ideas.
Search (Akar the Snake of Valoran)


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Leo Tomita

Senior Member

03-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shard View Post
Basically a Kennen like champion who can support.
You might want to check mine out for some ideas.
Search (Akar the Snake of Valoran)
thats a whole new level of arrogance...i've never seen such thing...i am feeling like Charles Darwin or someone like him...you haven't read ANYTHING about and YOU assume that YOUR idea is better than ANYTHING else?....based on what?..


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The Shard

Junior Member

03-26-2013

I was showing you at the very least a decent idea and format. I wasn't saying mine was the best. Also you can go back to my thread to see the response to your idiocy.


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Leo Tomita

Senior Member

03-27-2013

no danke!....


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Leo Tomita

Senior Member

03-27-2013

base stats added


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Mytharionas

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Senior Member

04-01-2013

Alright, let's get this show on the road!


Skills:

Quote:
Innate - Under Pressure :[/U] Katogin can attack allies, but instead of damage he press chi points to heal a ally champion. Healing ally champions with under pressure refunds Katogin's energy, this effect stack up to 3 times.
Okay, this is a new one. There's a rather glaring balance problem to be considered, by which I mean that Katogin seems to always be able to do this without having to expend or risk anything.

Essentially, i'm worried about him being able to just completely heal an ally free of cost, which means trying to poke out his allies is just wasting your time. I know there's an energy cap to how much energy you can restore this way, but healing doesn't look hindered in any way. The only thing I can think of to fight this is to focus all your efforts on taking out Katogin while ignoring his allies until he is dead.

What's your take on this?

Quote:
Q - Unlock/Lock: Katogin's next basic attack will trigger a effect depending on the target,this can heal and grant MS to allies or slows and damage enemies.
I suppose this ability would be serviceable in numerical terms. I don't like this ability, but i've spent an hour thinking about why with no clear answer. Maybe it's just a personal taste thing, so i'm not marking any points off for it.

These energy costs are quite highly, but that's what your passive's for ain't it?
Quote:
W - Break a Leg : Katogin charges forward attacking all champion on his path, ally champions receive bonus defenses and enemy champions have their defenses lowered for a short period.
A dash that deals no damage but affects defenses? This one is pretty weird, but I get what it's used for. I can't imagine he'd get much use out of this without an ally around though.

Quote:
E - Way of the Thousand Fists : Katogin uses his knowledge about anatomy to increase his own attack speed.
Alright, so Katogin can give himself a massive attack speed boost, which I can only assume will be used for healing allies since none of his other basic abilities benefit from AD. Although the sheer potency of the attack speed increase may be more powerful than I give it credit for.

Quote:
R - Haketsu : Katogin concentrates for one second and perform a massive attack with both hands, enemies in a cone ahead of him are knockback greatly, allies receive a huge heal.
I don't see a knockback range, but i'll assume it's about the range of W. This could be very effective in team fights. That said, the ratios are killing me here. The damage component is solely dependent on AD, and the healing component is meant for AP.

But AD isn't mentioned anywhere else in his kit, and AP is useful only for one other thing. The rest of his abilities, including his passive, don't have their power altered from either attribute. I've looked over the entirety of his kit, and I have not the slightest clue what strategy he employs. I can only imagine he's a support because of his passive, but I can't figure out if he's best for AD, AP, some combination of the two, or just full on tank. Maybe it's the whole "Energy Support" angle that's throwing me off.


Final Thoughts:
Honestly, I feel like i'm incredibly out of practice in terms of balance, because I can't say anything definitive about just how powerful Katogin would be. Yes, the passive ability of healing your allies at no cost could be quite overpowered, but the rest of it leaves me fumbling for answers.

The fundamental problem with an energy healer is that they make their team inexorable if played right. There's no limitation to how much healing they can dish out, so whoever they're paired with is more or less able to do whatever they please with no real consequence for them or Katogin, since he can autoattack them back to full health quite easily. That's really the only definitive thing I have for you.


I clearly need to give myself a refresher course on what works and what doesn't. I'd prefer my critiques to have some degree of confidence and merit to draw upon, and i'll need to work a bit on both. Regardless, I hope this review has helped you out, at least to some degree.


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Leo Tomita

Senior Member

04-03-2013

Quote:
Okay, this is a new one. There's a rather glaring balance problem to be considered, by which I mean that Katogin seems to always be able to do this without having to expend or risk anything.
Essentially, i'm worried about him being able to just completely heal an ally free of cost, which means trying to poke out his allies is just wasting your time. I know there's an energy cap to how much energy you can restore this way, but healing doesn't look hindered in any way. The only thing I can think of to fight this is to focus all your efforts on taking out Katogin while ignoring his allies until he is dead.
What's your take on this?
i agree with you...i haven't thought about the free heals...along side of garen, katogin is invencible...
i increased a bit the heal and add a cooldown for it...now the heals are more accurate.....or not?

Quote:
suppose this ability would be serviceable in numerical terms. I don't like this ability, but i've spent an hour thinking about why with no clear answer. Maybe it's just a personal taste thing, so i'm not marking any points off for it.

These energy costs are quite highly, but that's what your passive's for ain't it?
yes.....

Quote:
A dash that deals no damage but affects defenses? This one is pretty weird, but I get what it's used for. I can't imagine he'd get much use out of this without an ally around though.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL i forgot to add the damage!
should i put a little heal here too? i don't want too.

Quote:
Alright, so Katogin can give himself a massive attack speed boost, which I can only assume will be used for healing allies since none of his other basic abilities benefit from AD. Although the sheer potency of the attack speed increase may be more powerful than I give it credit for.
my idea here was like Master Yi skills...ALL AP..but if he builds AD he is equaly awesome...the same idea applies to Katogin...

Quote:
I don't see a knockback range, but i'll assume it's about the range of W. This could be very effective in team fights. That said, the ratios are killing me here. The damage component is solely dependent on AD, and the healing component is meant for AP.

But AD isn't mentioned anywhere else in his kit, and AP is useful only for one other thing. The rest of his abilities, including his passive, don't have their power altered from either attribute. I've looked over the entirety of his kit, and I have not the slightest clue what strategy he employs. I can only imagine he's a support because of his passive, but I can't figure out if he's best for AD, AP, some combination of the two, or just full on tank. Maybe it's the whole "Energy Support" angle that's throwing me off.
yep..the ratios are too high...waaaaaaaaaay too high...as high as Bob Marley in a bad day!

yes forgot to add the knockback too...it is higher than Break a Leg skill (charge)

good point of view...now the damage dealer skills...have AD ratios...the heal ...with AP
the idea was "a support energy based champ"....i dont think i have thoughted all angles.. you helped me see 3 big FAILS....


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Drais297

Senior Member

04-03-2013

I don't mean to impose but perhaps you or Mytharionis Could help me with my Champion concept (
Ryken, The Dark Rising). seeing your concept has given me great ideas, with no idea of how to implement them into his information.


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nyvrvyn

Senior Member

04-07-2013

I kinda like what I see here, though I really think there is drastic room for improvement.

The passive seems interesting to me, though the fact that you can only get stacks by attacking/healing allies to me is a significant downside. Especially since the heal can only be used on the same ally every 15 seconds. Personally I would introduce another way to proc the passive by hitting enemy champions as well, though I'm not sure about what effects that could have.

I like the Q, but I feel that the numbers are off. Especially in the energy cost department. Just too high. Also, for the movespeed buff and slow, the duration of 3 seconds is far to high, I would halve that to 1.5.

I like the W, but the fact you're scaling off of AD is weird. I understand that it works for his kit, but bear in mind there are barely any items that a support can buy that has AD and can still work as a support item. To me scaling off of AD really limits the item builds you can do.

Not a fan of the E. I think that having AS on this guy would only really be useful in regards to the rest of the kit with the passive, BUT since the passive can ONLY proc on allied champions, AND only once per 15 seconds, having AS seems to be a waste. Personally I would scrap this skill entirely and start from scratch.

Now the ultimate...seems like a good deal to me, but the cooldown on it is WAAY too low.

Overall, I like the idea of a) auto-attack based support b) energy based support, but I feel you have much more work to put into the concept first. Cheers!


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