Regarding Yorick

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Naokazu

Senior Member

03-23-2013

We all know that Yorick is a top lane god, he's nigh impossible to push out of lane, and that laning strength requires his potential when snowballed to be neutered. The base problem is that Yorick has all of his sustain tied to one skill, this is a problem because of how potent that skill is, he only needs to spam one ability at moderate mana cost to stay in lane all day. My proposal for him is to change his ghouls to all be the same and for his skills to all have two components, the active summon, and a passive which buffs his ghouls.

Passive: Unholy Covenant: Yorick deals increased damage and recieves decreased damage for each ghoul he has. His ghouls gain a portion of his Health, Armor, Magic Resistance, Attack Damage, and Attack Speed (.625 base plus part of his bonus attack speed including per level gains).

Q: Omen of War - Active: Grants Yorick increased movement speed (Like Garen's Q) and causes his next attack to deal bonus damage and summon a ghoul.
Passive: Yorick's ghouls have increased movement speed.

W: Omen of Pestilence - Active: Yorick summons a ghoul with an explosion, slowing nearby enemies.
Passive: Yorick's ghouls slow enemies by 4% on basic attack, this effect can stack 3/3/4/4/5 times, 1 second duration so that one ghoul won't permaslow.

E: Omen of Famine - Active: Yorick siphons a target's life force; summoning a ghoul, dealing damage, and healing himself (additionally, nerf the heal amount, and untie it from the damage dealt, like Vlad's Q).
Passive: Yorick's ghouls heal him for 10/15/20/25/30% of the damage they deal.

R: Omen of Death - Active: Yorick summons a revenant in the image of one of his allies, using their Health, Attack Damage, and Attack Speed instead of his own. This revenant gains 10/20/30% more stats than normal ghouls, and has improved versions of their passives.

Keep in mind that the numbers I quoted are off the top of my head and subject to rebalancing. Overall I think these changes would reduce his insane sustain, by merit of spreading it across his abilities, meaning he has to cast more often to gain the same effect, while also giving him more reason to build damage instead of pure tankiness, to be a threat late game.


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Naokazu

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Bump


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Wark Beedrill

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Member

03-23-2013

This may be biased because i havent played against many yoricks, but i dont think hes over powered.


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Naokazu

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myydrion View Post
This may be biased because i havent played against many yoricks, but i dont think hes over powered.
It's not a matter of being overpowered, it's a matter of being poorly designed. He's basically got all the tools to always win his lane, but after that there's not a whole lot he can do to leverage that into a victory.


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SMURFFPOPPYORAFK

Senior Member

03-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naokazu View Post
It's not a matter of being overpowered, it's a matter of being poorly designed. He's basically got all the tools to always win his lane, but after that there's not a whole lot he can do to leverage that into a victory.
what do you mean? he's shut down the top, and does have the ability to ult the ADC. he doesn't give his team an advantage he puts the other team at a disadvantage. He want from god to meh at the 20 minute mark, while your crying and racking up your 12th CS. how is that not in your teams favor if your yory?


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Naokazu

Senior Member

03-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMURFFPOPPYORAFK View Post
what do you mean? he's shut down the top, and does have the ability to ult the ADC. he doesn't give his team an advantage he puts the other team at a disadvantage. He want from god to meh at the 20 minute mark, while your crying and racking up your 12th CS. how is that not in your teams favor if your yory?
Premise 1: Yorick is wins the vast majority of lanes.
Premise 2: Yorick does not have an above average win rate (Lolking says he's right around 50%)
Conclusion: Yorick cannot leverage winning his lane into winning the game.


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Orbv

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Senior Member

03-24-2013

I like the idea of the passives...but it seems like that would make him more powerful than he currently is. I'll briefly give my opinion:

Q: Upon just activating it, Yorick gains movement speed boost. He already has a chasing slow, this would make him so hard to get away from and even a bit harder to gank. And having all of his ghouls gain movement speed would be okay if not for W's Passive, you could potentially have a permaslow by summoning 3 ghouls at once, almost instant max slow stacks and chasing you to keep it on. I liked the idea of being able to get away from the ghouls after initial summoning until they die off.

W: Seems fine, I'd be okay with that. But the Q passive would make this too good.

E: Having up to 4 ghouls give you lifesteal in addition to damage reduction is a scary idea, I rather he just have the one ghoul who does that. Late game his sustain and ability to tank would be ridiculous. Also the Vlad treatment idea is nice, but it wouldn't really be too different from what he has now. Giving him a base amount would mean that it wouldn't be reduced in half by using it on minions. And he only gets 40% of the dmg anyway.

TLR He is a strong laner and only better players with him can really use him the best way to guarantee victory. However, your changes just seem like buffs and the last thing he needs is a buff.


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Naokazu

Senior Member

03-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbv View Post
I like the idea of the passives...but it seems like that would make him more powerful than he currently is. I'll briefly give my opinion:

Q: Upon just activating it, Yorick gains movement speed boost. He already has a chasing slow, this would make him so hard to get away from and even a bit harder to gank. And having all of his ghouls gain movement speed would be okay if not for W's Passive, you could potentially have a permaslow by summoning 3 ghouls at once, almost instant max slow stacks and chasing you to keep it on. I liked the idea of being able to get away from the ghouls after initial summoning until they die off.
I can appreciate that a speed boost on his Q and a slow on his W seems powerful, but then Yorick has no gap closer and no crowd control, he has basically no means of reaching and sticking to a target; look at Skarner, he has both a speed boost and a permaslow, is he overpowered? Having played him only briefly, I've found the speed from his Q ghoul to be almost useless, trying to use it to escape requires you to turn around and attack your pursuer, trying to chase means you have to lumber up to your target and they can just turn and walk away. And keep in mind that the numbers I proposed for his W total to 20% slow, less than Frozen Mallet, marginally better than Rylai's applied by an AoE, and less than any other champion with a permaslow.

Quote:
W: Seems fine, I'd be okay with that. But the Q passive would make this too good.

E: Having up to 4 ghouls give you lifesteal in addition to damage reduction is a scary idea, I rather he just have the one ghoul who does that. Late game his sustain and ability to tank would be ridiculous. Also the Vlad treatment idea is nice, but it wouldn't really be too different from what he has now. Giving him a base amount would mean that it wouldn't be reduced in half by using it on minions. And he only gets 40% of the dmg anyway.
Each ghoul would restore considerably less life than his current E ghoul, and it could certainly retain the half effect on minions stipulation. "Having up to 4 ghouls..." part of my goal here is to make Yorick scary while his ult is active, I really don't think it should just be a second rate Zilean ult.

Quote:
TLR He is a strong laner and only better players with him can really use him the best way to guarantee victory. However, your changes just seem like buffs and the last thing he needs is a buff.
Thanks for your input.


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Oz SammyD X

Senior Member

03-24-2013

You do realise Yorick spams his abilities constantly after he has a Tear which means he would always be healing, this makes him a lot stronger and have more sustain, three abilities constantly healing with no cooldown because there will always be a Ghoul up, late game he would be near impossible to kill, you basically just said to make him stronger which I'm sorry it's definately not going to happen.

Your basically saying to destroy what makes Yorick, Yorick, he can be beat in top lane there are champions that do counter him he is not a laning god, Yorick is supposed to be strong in lane and then later he relies on cloning an ally to make it a 6v5 and give an ally a second chance to help the team after death.

IMO you don't know how to beat him or you don't know how to use him, just my 2 cents.


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Naokazu

Senior Member

03-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz SammyD X View Post
You do realise Yorick spams his abilities constantly after he has a Tear which means he would always be healing, this makes him a lot stronger and have more sustain, three abilities constantly healing with no cooldown because there will always be a Ghoul up, late game he would be near impossible to kill, you basically just said to make him stronger which I'm sorry it's definately not going to happen.
This is a gross exaggeration, spamming QWE will have him oom in short order, Tear or no. And even so the numbers I suggested would still have him healing less with all three ghouls until he maxxed his E.

Quote:
Your basically saying to destroy what makes Yorick, Yorick, he can be beat in top lane there are champions that do counter him he is not a laning god, Yorick is supposed to be strong in lane and then later he relies on cloning an ally to make it a 6v5 and give an ally a second chance to help the team after death.
What you think he's supposed to be, what he is, and what he actually should be aren't necessarily the same thing.

Quote:
IMO you don't know how to beat him or you don't know how to use him, just my 2 cents.
Entirely possible.


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