Rational Nidalee Discussion

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Naokazu

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Let's face it, AP Nidalee is imbalanced. This is not to say that she's overpowered or even underpowered; simply that her strengths are too strong and her weaknesses are too weak. The root cause is her spear, it focuses too much of her power onto one spell, specifically it has all of the following qualities:

  • Low investment; it costs little mana and has a short cooldown
  • High damage; if one lands at long range, the victim must retreat or die
  • Insane range; she never puts herself in harm's way while using it

Being completely centered around one skill makes her both boring to play if your enemies consistently dodge it, and frustrating to play against when so much as one hit puts you out of a fight.

A lot of people try to draw parallels between Nidalee and other champions, and every time they fail because that other champion lacks one of the listed factors, they can't use their burst as often, or as safely as Nidalee.

I propose that she receive a rework, the following being the important points.
  • Enable her cougar form at level 1
  • Give her increased resistances in cougar form
  • Tie her cougar form damage to the skill levels instead of her ult level
  • Dramatically reduce her spear's damage; reduce its cooldown and mana cost; increase its missile speed

This will make her poke game similar to Ezreal's; incredibly spammy, but less damage per hit. At the same time she will be better able to teamfight with her free resistances.


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Sagee Prime

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Senior Member

03-23-2013

You are basically saying that she needs a rework. I won't disagree with you there but I'm also not enthusiastic about RIOTs current design path at the moment. They are currently reducing how flexible old champions are and making new champions to only fill 1 or 2 roles with very little room for build variation.


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NiceGuySean

Senior Member

03-23-2013

I hate to say it. I was in the same position as you.

Nidalee, in theory is very very scary. Getting hit by her spear in theory is very very scary, her heal in theory is very very scary.

But all you have to do is dodge her spears and she's useless. Now that IN THEORY is easier said than done. Oh and her heal isn't that great

and to be honest, most people who play nidalee can't land spears for their lives! I just see her as more of an assassin, she can be taken out by any tank just as easy as she can take out squshies.

If you're getting hit by her spear in mid lane, try fizz, or Kass, or even teemo. If bot try Ez, and she usually doesn't go top for the exact reason of being an easy feed for tanks


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Naokazu

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagee Prime View Post
You are basically saying that she needs a rework. I won't disagree with you there but I'm also not enthusiastic about RIOTs current design path at the moment. They are currently reducing how flexible old champions are and making new champions to only fill 1 or 2 roles with very little room for build variation.
She already has no flexibility, either she plays support or she builds to chunk people with spears.


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Sagee Prime

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Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naokazu View Post
She already has no flexibility, either she plays support or she builds to chunk people with spears.
Thus the current design path...


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aknatn

Junior Member

03-23-2013

I really don't feel she needs a nerf, as her strongest damaging ability is unbearably skill based, i really am not ever intimidated by a nidalee on the enemy team. I do however admit that thanks to my experience with her, i quite often mutilate my targets. But lastly, despite her unbelievable ganking potential, it's extremely rare to see a nidalee with an unfair endgame score (including myself).


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Burstlord

Senior Member

03-24-2013

The problem with Nidalee is once you get someone who is good with her she is basically unstoppable. People always say dodge the spears but when your in a team fight, or running through the tight passages of the jungle this is nearly impossible. And when your whole team is around forget it because one of you is getting hit.

And the thing is her spear just hits too damn hard. Its damage rivals and sometimes goes past the strength of the execution ults and if your not stacking MR and health one spear can take literally 2/3 of your health. It serious needs to be reduced.

And then their her mobility. She is without a doubt the most mobile champion in the game and unless you have 2-3 hard CC on your team your never going to catch her. every time she enters a bush she gets free ghost and her cougar form as a spam dash that makes catching her in the jungle impossible.

So we have a champ with the most powerful skillshot in the game who also has traps, heals, free ghost, and a dash. I honestly dont see how anyone can defend this. She needs a nerf, and a big one to put her back in a more balanced place.


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Vhaegor

Senior Member

03-24-2013

She needs a big nerf on her Spear but she needs a boost on pretty much everything else, her spear is like literally the only good thing about apart from her mobility which is rediculous as well. make her jump in cougar smaller or longer CD, decrease her spear damage alot make it like every other skill shot fast but relatively weak, give back her resistences in cougar form but maybe only half because she has so much mobility, boost all her other skills so shes not just a super mobile one ability champ.


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Topopo

Senior Member

03-24-2013

"Rational Discussion"

"Let's face it, AP Nidalee is this because WAAAAH only what I say matters"

Okay. You are literally parroting hundreds of other whiners who have been shut down time and time again.

Spear doesn't need a nerf, it needs a bugfix to make it properly visible - that's it. She already lost her Cougar armor/mr. Spears are super slow - stop running around in friggin' circles and eating them up, yumyumyum. Seriously, you don't need to keep moving forever, and it tends to make people eat spears even more.

There was a three minute stalemate at a turret a few games ago - Nidalee threw spears at us every time they were off CD.

How many times did I get hit even though I was in range? Zero. As long as you can see the spear or know where she is, it loses all oomph. Once again, the damage is fine - it simply needs a bugfix to make it properly visible and people need to stop WALKING INTO THEM AND THEN WHINING.

If a Champion had a five second cast ability that instantly killed a champion in a very small spot directly in front of them(that rooted them while casting), people would run into it AND WHINE ABOUT IT EVEN THOUGH NO ONE SHOULD BE GETTING HIT BY IT.

Also laughing at "most mobile champ in the game". Nah, Kass pees all over her mobility with longer range flashes. A big nerf won't 'put her in a balanced place', it'll utterly kill her - then again, everyone likes to play balance executive.


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Ginjavitis

Senior Member

03-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burstlord View Post

And then their her mobility. She is without a doubt the most mobile champion in the game and unless you have 2-3 hard CC on your team your never going to catch her. every time she enters a bush she gets free ghost and her cougar form as a spam dash that makes catching her in the jungle impossible.
Kass? Fizz? Ahri? Ez? they all have much better ecape mechanism than nid, one burst of speed an you will catch her you just have to cc early don't wait till she runs


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