Wow!!! These Nerfs and Buffs...just wow

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Cryptic Hex

Junior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz SammyD X View Post
Riot need to put the nerf bat away they have nerfed way way to many champions and some for the stupidest reasons, most were CLEARLY because of bronze/silver division scrubs complaining.

-Darius
-Rengar
-Singed

Three good examples of champions that were nerfed because of low Elo QQ'ers.
Darius nerf was quite balanced...Because they nerfed him many times to see how thing go after each nerf.
But singed rengar nerfs were kinda overkills imo


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
because garen and singed werent overpowered

if you play 2-3 weeks as anyone wouldnt you start doing better than alot of people anyways?
Singed WAS.

Garen, I dunno. I never see him like, ever.


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertFox View Post
Childish rant. Keep saying "you guys", as if we're all a bunch of ******* and you're in Challenger I, teaching scrubs how to play? STFU. You're new to this game. You don't deserve to talk sh*t. At all. We don't think Olaf/Alistar is OP, dumb****. Olaf's win rate is 40% (lower than karma) and Ali's 46%. Both are horrid. AND no, all the nerfs and buffs so far are not too much nor too little. Don't like it? GTFO
Please allow me to rape you with my Ali support laning. All it takes is for you to be at the disadvantage one time, and you lose the lane forever.


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz SammyD X View Post
Riot need to put the nerf bat away they have nerfed way way to many champions and some for the stupidest reasons, most were CLEARLY because of bronze/silver division scrubs complaining.

-Darius
-Rengar
-Singed

Three good examples of champions that were nerfed because of low Elo QQ'ers.
These are good examples of champions that had extremely strong early games while still scaling powerfully into late game... whether they did well in lane or not. No counterplay, no shutting it down, no outplaying it.

Aside from possibly Darius, they needed nerfed.


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Barcster

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcticfury View Post
He gets better late game dazzle but the first 3 levels are lowered, and the new passive balances the nerf to shatter. He is still better off than he was 3 months ago.
No he is not better. His dazzle isn't lowered for the first 3 levels its for the first 3 ranks and by 3 times the amount it gets buffed by extremely late game this is a huge nerf and its a nerf that you cannot fix till you've nearly maxed the skill rank. I've tried maxing his dazzle first and its trash. Early game stuff affects way more than late game and its 3 times a nerf than the value of the late game buff so its even more ridiculous. Also his shatter nerf is pretty bad it's less damage its expected to be ranked even lower because they expect you to rank dazzle instead. So now he doesn't have damage, he doesn't have stun, he doesn't have sustain its a pretty massive nerf sure he can still heal but his aura got nerfed too. Enemies don't have to worry about anything taric does anymore.


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TealNinje

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamaree View Post
I would like to say something about this. Remember around two years ago when Try got his current rework? It took two years for people to realize it was OP
Tryndamere has never been overpowered. The Fury rework nerfed him, rendering him underpowered, simply because he could no longer do the one thing he was capable of doing; massive damage.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IIZeusII View Post
This guy again! I always see him here.. Bro u have 0 idea about how things work..."Singed Garen Tryn Shen was never op"... is this guy serious? Dude get gold at least before u make these comments cos It's hard to say which champ is op when all 10 players are silver bronze and making idiotic mistakes even with the op champs xD
I may not be gold ranked, but at least I don't make up things to talk **** about. That's not what I said. And my judgement isnt based off silver bronze or even gold level games for that matter. Dont hide behind ELO and all that ****. You can get on my nuts all you want as long as you've actually got something better than something to the effect of "obviously youve never seen a good..."

Where is the evidence that theyre OP. Or they were ever OP. Show it to me. Show me the platinum or higher level game with so few mistakes where they were simply too much to be handled. It doesnt take gold rank and a talent for fingering your keyboard awsomely to analyze a game's design and tell what doesnt fit.

I only said AP tryn wasnt an issue. Tryn himself apparently had his 15 minutes.

singed hasnt been an issue.

Shen has always been questionable but I differentiate between gamewarping and OP. Shen is beyond gamewarping, shen is not OP.

Garen has never been an issue, the items he synergized with were the issue not the champ. The items were changed slightly and the champ left behind quickly fell into the trashbin. Most of his patches have just been QoL and small tweaks, he was left alone for the most part until about the end of season 1 between the skarner and riven releases. It would be a long time before his rework when he would see some more popularity, even then he was never really an issue, just another bruiser with an annoying trick.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IIZeusII View Post
Why are you always talking about championship games???
Diamond players can do good with champ even with karma. But riots main player base is not diamond players. Slightly Overpowered champs can make a good difference for normal player. This is still a 10 player game so anything can happen. Noobs like you don't even realize if someone goes afk for 5 mins but it affects their gameplay beyond ur tiny brains imagination xD
In a discussion about balance I give very few s**ts about who RIOTs playerbase is. Championship games, despite the low sample size, are the ideal source of information on game balance. When lowerlevels make mistakes you can play the "they are just bad" card. At the highest level of play, when something goes wrong youre at a point where you can only choose between calling it an "isolated incident" or "a problem where the part of the game is difficult in such a way that human capabilities cannot overcome it"

I know how many players participate in 5v5
I know what 5 minutes can do to a player

I'm glad to see youre so impressed with yourself for understanding such basic things. Before you go talking about my tiny brain however, I suggest you grow a pair and actually argue the facts or at least touch on a more difficult subject. Betting that someone doesnt know how much can happen in 5 minutes makes you seem like one of those 3 year olds who think you should be in awe of their amazing ability to spell their own name.

Here's something more fitting for someone I assume is at least gold rank. Being afk for a full 5 minutes can cost your team alot. But do you know how to come back from it assuming there's a chance?


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Arcticfury

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barcster View Post
No he is not better. His dazzle isn't lowered for the first 3 levels its for the first 3 ranks and by 3 times the amount it gets buffed by extremely late game this is a huge nerf and its a nerf that you cannot fix till you've nearly maxed the skill rank. I've tried maxing his dazzle first and its trash. Early game stuff affects way more than late game and its 3 times a nerf than the value of the late game buff so its even more ridiculous. Also his shatter nerf is pretty bad it's less damage and less surviability its expected to be ranked even lower because they expect you to rank dazzle instead. So now he doesn't have damage, he doesn't have stun, he doesn't have sustain its a pretty massive nerf sure he can still heal but his aura got nerfed too. Enemies don't have to worry about anything taric does anymore.
So I said level instead of rank, you knew I meant rank so don't be a jerk.

While I agree flat early game stuff affects you more than late game I don't believe it is the same for durations. Late game the enemy carry can burn down a champ quicker than early game, so the stun is actually better late game as it gives extra protection from the extreme late game burst and also allows your carry to burst them down quicker with less hindrance. You can argue that one either way, but I agree it is a small nerf for early game and an even smaller buff for mid and late game.

The lower survivability from shatter is only for your ADC, Taric is in no way nerfed in his personal armor from the change, and late game he should be back up to par unless you fail to give him a decent amount of armor.

The lowered shatter damage is 15 less damage at rank 1 and 30 less at rank 5, with 1000 mana (extremely low late game) you'll do an extra 17 damage (20 from mana bonus and -3 from reduction in base damage). That means in two auto attacks you're ahead of where he was before the last two patches. Not to mention it now scales with armor and has a flat cost of 50 mana. You'll actually do more damage now if you can land 2 auto attacks in your burst output than you could before.

Dazzle now also costs 20 less mana. With the lower costs in mana that alone makes up for the old passive leaving, even if you did find a way to use it, you'd have to get in 4 auto attacks for any one spell cast to make up for the lower costs, and now he does MORE damage.

From S2 to S3 Taric is definitely better off, the only down side is the lower early game stun and aura, but his mid and late game are nothing but better. I swear you guys only see the negative and never even bother to read everything in the patch notes, nor do you notice that he now gets kills.

Patch 3.03 = HUGE BUFF
Patch 3.04 = very slight nerf
HUGE BUFF - very slight nerf = Decent Buff


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Barcster

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcticfury View Post
So I said level instead of rank, you knew I meant rank so don't be a jerk.

While I agree flat early game stuff affects you more than late game I don't believe it is the same for durations. Late game the enemy carry can burn down a champ quicker than early game, so the stun is actually better late game as it gives extra protection from the extreme late game burst and also allows your carry to burst them down quicker with less hindrance. You can argue that one either way, but I agree it is a small nerf for early game and an even smaller buff for mid and late game.

The lower survivability from shatter is only for your ADC, Taric is in no way nerfed in his personal armor from the change, and late game he should be back up to par unless you fail to give him a decent amount of armor.

The lowered shatter damage is 15 less damage at rank 1 and 30 less at rank 5, with 1000 mana (extremely low late game) you'll do an extra 17 damage (20 from mana bonus and -3 from reduction in base damage). That means in two auto attacks you're ahead of where he was before the last two patches. Not to mention it now scales with armor and has a flat cost of 50 mana. You'll actually do more damage now if you can land 2 auto attacks in your burst output than you could before.

Dazzle now also costs 20 less mana. With the lower costs in mana that alone makes up for the old passive leaving, even if you did find a way to use it, you'd have to get in 4 auto attacks for any one spell cast to make up for the lower costs, and now he does MORE damage.

From S2 to S3 Taric is definitely better off, the only down side is the lower early game stun and aura, but his mid and late game are nothing but better. I swear you guys only see the negative and never even bother to read everything in the patch notes, nor do you notice that he now gets kills.

Patch 3.03 = HUGE BUFF
Patch 3.04 = very slight nerf
HUGE BUFF - very slight nerf = Decent Buff
Yes you meant rank but it makes a massive difference I was just trying to make that clear. I mean even if he maxes the stun it takes till level 7 not to be nerfed and he'd be ignoring his other skills which matters alot and is quite different from having rank 2 be where he equalized.

Since he got nerfed so badly early that late game carry is way worse off a .1 sec duration does not remotely make up for a .3 sec loss especially when that loss is early game. Its not a small nerf early game its a 21 tenacity buff to enemies that reduces by 7 tenacity per rank of dazzle after the first rank to gain the slightest boost possible afterwards. There's a reason people didn't rank his stun before it's because it wasn't a great skill after the first rank and now its even worse than before. The goal was to make it chosen more often but I want to choose it less than ever.

The lower survivability isn't for only your ADC but it definitely affects that also. Taric lost armor and since dazzle now is shorter enemies kill you far more and die far less. If you try and max dazzle first you have no sustain and you don't damage enemies. Yes auto attacks are stronger but your AOE is worse which is much more than some auto attack damage and they made the armor scaling worse which is bad too. The lowered mana costs on shatter and dazzle are just to negate the loss of the old passive he's still extremely mana hungry particularly since heal costs the same and you now don't restore mana.

Oh I definitely read the patch notes saying they wanted dazzle to be ranked. I tried that and its still terrible. In 3.03 he was fair. Now he just gets owned in 3.04