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Made a thread that got a red response pre-relaunch, just tried relaunch Karma.

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Ninth Belief

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Created this (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3227053) thread a week ago regarding Karma's relaunch, mostly for the passive change -- Red responses said her old kit was unable to ever be truly balanced, but that her new kit still felt very Karma. I was unwilling to take their word, but thought I'd give it a shot before I got too up in arms.

Well -- just gave it a shot.

Note that this is solely about Karma's kit, and my opinion hardly differs between Support or AP Carry Karma.

My main conclusions:

Q is a great spell that had both kinds of Karma in mind...kinda. It's definitely amazing for support. A slow that strong on a rank 1 skill is great for support, easily allows your ADC an extra hit or two. For AP Carry Karma, the only disappointing aspects of this spell are that it doesn't have as much aoe as the old cone did, and therefore it's kinda crappy to AOE farm with; maxing E like AP Karma used to is no longer going to be an option at all, because Mantra has a 40 second cooldown.


W -- at first glance, I hated it, and there were DEFINITELY times where I really wished I could latch onto a minion for the MS boost, and there were also times where I wished I could save an ADC with the MS boost from the old W. However, I definitely like the new one. The CC is great for support, and the self heal on the Mantra can be a lifesaver. Definitely felt great to lock people down in tower range or to seperate a diving Vi from her team whilst stopping her engage at the same time. I will say it's a bit throttling that she has a self only heal now and I kinda wish I could link to friendly champions still, but the MS boost from E would make that redundant.


E was a spell I could only be certain was doomed. The duration was lowered, the AP ratio was lowered, it had what looked to be a clunky MS boost on it, hell, the damage dealt and the shield given weren't even the same ratio (which is I assume is the factor that was hard to balance in the previous kit). I was pleasantly surprised that it was far and away my favorite spell. It's literally a free Reverie+Locket if you can position it accordingly and have your Mantra up, and the MS boost I thought was going to be clunky actually felt very good to use -- the fact that it's on the shield now feels much more "correct" or "optimized" for lack of better terms.


Her mantra. Jesus, as the one feature Riot made sure to advertise as the "spirit" of old Karma living in the new one, this is an INCREDIBLE disappointment. With 40% CDR and max rank, it's a 27 second cooldown. That's 3 seconds less than the old Mantra when it had 2 charges and NO CDR WHATSOEVER.


Upon realizing this, it's like they tried to cover it up with duct tape by giving her an incredibly generic and overused passive of "free cdr!". Mind you, the CDR only works when you hit champions, one of your spells is ONLY single target, and your autoattacks have some of the smallest range in the game, even with the changes. Not only that, but the passive in itself is hardly noticeable as a real passive -- it feels like it should just be some extra detail on her ultimate, yet it takes up her entire passive. Imagine if Elise's passive was "extra MS in spiderform". "Sorry, no more baby spiders!". That's the potential they're taking away from Karma when they give her this watered-down beyond belief passive.


Past gameplay, I have to say her new VO is an insult to Karma's character. Between old Karma's Buddhist, Hindu, Jain and Sikh beliefs, and her being an icon of Ionia (which is pretty widely recognized as Runeterra's version of Asia) at what point did Karma become an overly stereotypical black lady? I have no issue with the voice actor herself, as her voiceacting seems to be just fine, but "YOOW KNOW WHAT THEYA SA(e)Y -- KARMA ALWAYS CATCHES UP TO-YOOW!" is plainly ridiculous for her character. I like the way new Karma looks aside from some personal opinions like a dislike for short hair, but I see now why Riot kept her old voiceacting for Traditional Karma -- it's the only way people are going to even remotely get that same gloriously possibly-half-sarcastic voice acting from her original voice. I suppose that's just one man's opinion, though.



Overall, balance-wise she's likely fine, She's an incredible support and at least an average AP Carry, which I suppose is what people wanted from her anyway, and in that aspect Riot "nailed it outta the park". I still can't get past their lack of a want to create a better and personal passive for what used to be a beautifully unique Karma. I'm posting this thread here since Riot might have likelier intentions of listening to feedback on the PBE forums.


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Eyrgos

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Inb4 you test her more and become ashamed because the passive allows for excellent gameplay.

And there's plenty of nuance/culture in her new voice, in fact it's far less stereotypical.

You crazy man :P


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Ninth Belief

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Eyrgos:
Inb4 you test her more and become ashamed because the passive allows for excellent gameplay.


Quote:
Upon realizing this, it's like they tried to cover it up with duct tape by giving her an incredibly generic and overused passive of "free cdr!". Mind you, the CDR only works when you hit champions, one of your spells is ONLY single target, and your autoattacks have some of the smallest range in the game, even with the changes. Not only that, but the passive in itself is hardly noticeable as a real passive -- it feels like it should just be some extra detail on her ultimate, yet it takes up her entire passive. Imagine if Elise's passive was "extra MS in spiderform". "Sorry, no more baby spiders!". That's the potential they're taking away from Karma when they give her this watered-down beyond belief passive.


Clever edit, by the way -- probably managed to free yourself from a temp forum ban.


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Eyrgos

Senior Member

03-23-2013

? Sure lol. I barely changed the wording, thought it might be confusing. Thanks for the down-voting too, since I'm defending myself from an unjustified insult.


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Best Karma Ionia

Senior Member

03-23-2013

A .5 second bonus for autoattacking and 1 for spell on a 40 second CD at level 1 is pretty worthless, Eyrgos.


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Atyri

Member

03-23-2013

I feel like no longer having a heal really brings her down in the support category. Ill miss saving peoples bacon with heals

Thoughts?


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Eyrgos

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Homocastle:
A .5 second bonus for autoattacking and 1 for spell on a 40 second CD at level 1 is pretty worthless, Eyrgos.


In your opinion*.

Also it's spell-hits, so a Q/Q2/E2 can proc it multiple times in a team fight.

And factoring in CDR beyond that... just saying :P (in my opinion, it's great as it)


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Eyrgos

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Atyri:
I feel like no longer having a heal really brings her down in the support category. Ill miss saving peoples bacon with heals

Thoughts?


I do miss the team-healing, but I'm in love with the utility her new tether brings- it's insanely punishing for the enemy tank/peelers/yi's or hecarims


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Best Karma Ionia

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Eyrgos:
In your opinion*.

Also it's spell-hits, so a Q/Q2/E2 can proc it multiple times in a team fight.

And factoring in CDR beyond that... just saying :P (in my opinion, it's great as it)


I said at level 1. End game yea it's alright. But until level 12 or so where you might consistently be poking down the enemy or in a TF, it's worthless.


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Bedwilly Sanchez

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Ninth Belief:

Upon realizing this, it's like they tried to cover it up with duct tape by giving her an incredibly generic and overused passive of "free cdr!". Mind you, the CDR only works when you hit champions, one of your spells is ONLY single target, and your autoattacks have some of the smallest range in the game, even with the changes. Not only that, but the passive in itself is hardly noticeable as a real passive -- it feels like it should just be some extra detail on her ultimate, yet it takes up her entire passive. Imagine if Elise's passive was "extra MS in spiderform". "Sorry, no more baby spiders!". That's the potential they're taking away from Karma when they give her this watered-down beyond belief passive.


I completely agree with this. Her passive feels very bad, it is not a passive at all. This should be a part of her R.

I have made a post and read many others about how her passive feels tacked on and the CD on her ultimate is long. With only one mantra, even if you make the right choice, you feel like you made the wrong one later as you wish you had the mantra for the next skill.


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