Passive : Garen's vs Mundo's

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JeanCoubat

Member

03-22-2013

(Garen) Perseverance
- If Garen has not taken damage from any source except minions in the last 9 seconds or affected by an enemy champion's abilities, he will start regenerating 0.4% of his maximum health per second.

(Mundo) Adrenaline Rush
- Dr. Mundo regains 0.3% of his maximum health each second.


How do you guys feel about Garen's Passive vs Mundo's ?
My opinion is that Mundo's is better because that 9 seconds delay on Garen's isn't worth the single 0.1 bonus percentage of health regeneration.
I'm not saying that Garen's Passive should be as twice as Mundo's because of its "Condition", but I think 0.1% more regeneration applying with such a huge delay that may occur more than once every minute isn't enough.

Let's just say both Garen and Mundo have 2000 HP and that Garen would get hit by or a turret or an enemy at least two times every minute in a 20 minutes countdown.
Mundo's Passive Regen. / Minute : (0.3%) 6HP x (1 Min.) 60s. = 360HP .
Garen's Passive Regen. / Minute : (0.4%) 8HP x (1 Min. - 18s. Delay) 42s. = 336HP .
Mundo's Passive Regen. / 20 Minutes : (1 Min.) 360HP x 20 Mins. = 7200HP .
Garen's Passive Regen. / 20 Minutes : (1 Min.) 336HP x 20 Mins. = 6720HP .
Mundo's Passive Regen. would technically be about 7% better in that case.

Now, let's just say there was some 5v5 fight on the mid lane which would last 40s - 120s (Trying to be realistic here) and that Garen would get hit enough to not get his regeneration back.
Mundo's Passive Regen. / 40s. fight : 6HP x 40s. = 240HP , which could save him from an ignite or a low burst attack.
Garen's Passive Regen. / 40s fight : 8HP x 0s. (Because he kept getting hit) = 0 HP.
Mundo's Passive Regen. / 120s fight : 6HP x 120s. = 720HP , which is alot and could've save him from many AoE bursts and some Targetatbles Abilities.
Garen's Passive Regen. / 120s fight : 8HP x 0s. (Because, once again, he kept getting hit) = 0HP .

Garen's Passive did not provide good help in this fight. Garen is a melee character and needs to rush in teamfights and is also easy to target during the laning phase as he needs some Cs and he is a melee character. His passive would actually be better during the laning phase, but we all know that Garen would be a better teamfighter. Why would you give him a passive that is not even better than Mundo's and that is actually NOT for him (The 9s. condition only makes the passive useless on such a good melee fighter/meat shield).

Garen's Passive, when properly used, gives some good sustain in lane, but isn't so good in teamfights and may limits him to get some XP / Cs as he has to go far away from the attack in order to get back the Passive, while Mundo's Passive gives also great sustain on lane (And in the jungle), but provides also good sustain in teamfights.

I don't want Garen's Passive to be the exact same thing as Mundo's and I really want it to be some regeneration thing. I do believe that Mundo's Passive is stronger and my idea would be to :
1 - Improve Garen's Passive Regeneration %, not touching the 9 seconds delay or;
2 - Reduce the delay duration or modifying the condition (By example, only Magic damage would give the 9 seconds delay) as it would now adjust Garen to be good against Physical champs, but weak against Magical champs.

Anyway, TL;DR..
I just came here to say that 0.4% on Garen's Regeneration was not enough.


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Jamaree

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Senior Member

03-22-2013

Nah, it is fine because it balances it out kit wise. Garen's moves don't cost him life, Mundo's does, it is a trade off.


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Algol1

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Agreed.


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JeanCoubat

Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamaree View Post
Nah, it is fine because it balances it out kit wise. Garen's moves don't cost him life, Mundo's does, it is a trade off.
Cooldown actually balance it all, it's not about the passive.


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Jamaree

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Senior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanCoubat View Post
Cooldown actually balance it all, it's not about the passive.
Riot has said before that before you compare ANY part of ANY kit, you need to look at both them as a whole, not just one. Why is it fair that Garen gets more effective CC then? Or, why is it fair that Garen's ultimate does more damage end game (in theory) over Darius's. Because when you look at their whole kit, each one has something better as a whole. If Garen's passive was any better, his moves would either need longer CDs or cost him health.


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PapstJL4U

Senior Member

03-22-2013

well, if you want Garens Spells to have a HP Costs, its fine....


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Nyhver

Senior Member

03-22-2013

His passive isn't strong, it's weak in general and useful at other times.

As stated, you can't really compare one kit ability to another without looking at the whole, because that's what the game is based on, everything coming together.

Though I'm in support of Garen being buffed, he needs it. His passive makes him too easy to be shut down in lane phase to anyone that has the poke, there's too much delay between all of his attacks, his only two main ones, (ultimate is situational and a one use execute post level 5) are his Q and E, and E falls off late game leaving him with Q, and E for when you're stunned / the situation calls for it. Garen needs a stun in replace of his 'w' or something, because as it is now, he lacks sustain, gap closers, (decisive strike is easy to kite) and he doesn't bring a whole lot to a fight outside of low ELO rating where people think he's overpowered. Garen built as a tank isn't good because it's obvious that he's coming, with only decisive strike he has no gap closers and can be seen easy. As AD, he does great damage but he still has trouble getting to the enemy and he's not as protected as before because of the change to his 'w'.

Compare Garen to other bruisers and they bring more to a fight in terms of CC, damage to health/defense ratio and team prowess.

I want garen's passive and his 'w' changed to make him more useful.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Dont just compare one part of the kit. Also mundo's works in battle, kindof a big difference


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JediMasterKenobi

Member

03-23-2013

It's ok that they nerfed it, but then they have to reduce the timer. 9 seconds is way to long for such a small amount of health. I think 6 seconds would be good.


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Devious Rogue

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dredginth View Post
His passive isn't strong, it's weak in general and useful at other times.

As stated, you can't really compare one kit ability to another without looking at the whole, because that's what the game is based on, everything coming together.

Though I'm in support of Garen being buffed, he needs it. His passive makes him too easy to be shut down in lane phase to anyone that has the poke, there's too much delay between all of his attacks, his only two main ones, (ultimate is situational and a one use execute post level 5) are his Q and E, and E falls off late game leaving him with Q, and E for when you're stunned / the situation calls for it. Garen needs a stun in replace of his 'w' or something, because as it is now, he lacks sustain, gap closers, (decisive strike is easy to kite) and he doesn't bring a whole lot to a fight outside of low ELO rating where people think he's overpowered. Garen built as a tank isn't good because it's obvious that he's coming, with only decisive strike he has no gap closers and can be seen easy. As AD, he does great damage but he still has trouble getting to the enemy and he's not as protected as before because of the change to his 'w'.

Compare Garen to other bruisers and they bring more to a fight in terms of CC, damage to health/defense ratio and team prowess.

I want garen's passive and his 'w' changed to make him more useful.
Decisive strike actually isn't that easy to kite for some champs. It works well against some, badly against others.


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