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Why does Ahri have the assassin tag?

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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
The Blue Jelly:
Yes but you still get the AD scaling of Irelia's Q even without leveling it past 1. The scaling doesn't scale. The CD goes down, yes, but the mana cost goes up (and the mana restore from last hitting does not). W is just all around more efficient and has more actual burst. In a trade you aren't getting Q low enough in CD to use more than once (not early, anyways), and leveling W increases its heal, which makes you trade all-around better.

yes but you can

W>Q> stun and walk away before they do whatever bull**** they do. And be ready to do it again every time. You do get the 100% AD bonus but if youre leveling W and building AD you aren't getting your burst out of W. Theres a lower cap on W's output over a short period earlyon and it falls off somewhat later (it falls down to just above twice acceptable damage levels lol.)

Basically imagine if they flash away and you cant afford to chase (if they have immoble fancy hair and knock you back like an ****hole and try to shoot you lol)


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The Blue Jelly

Senior Member

03-22-2013

The stun only works if you were at less health, otherwise it's a slow.

You're acting like you get more burst from your bonus AD by leveling Q- you don't. You get a faster refire on Q, not more burst.

W never falls off, it's true damage; at max it's 75 per hit for 5 seconds. That's a free, irresistible 3.75% damage against 2k HP target *per hit*.

Oh no they flashed or burned a CD to knock me away...
Let me do what Irelia does really really damn well.
Give no fks an go back to farming while they cower in fear. I'm at full health before they bring themselves to try and trade with me again.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
The Blue Jelly:
The stun only works if you were at less health, otherwise it's a slow.

You're acting like you get more burst from your bonus AD by leveling Q- you don't. You get a faster refire on Q, not more burst.

W never falls off, it's true damage; at max it's 75 per hit for 5 seconds. That's a free, irresistible 3.75% damage against 2k HP target *per hit*.

Oh no they flashed or burned a CD to knock me away...
Let me do what Irelia does really really damn well.
Give no fks an go back to farming while they cower in fear. I'm at full health before they bring themselves to try and trade with me again.

no

I'll put it this way

What does Q scale with
what does W scale with
Which one lends itself better to burst damage... the end

which one is more strategically sound to level is another story, but if you want to deal burst damage her Q is the better choice due to how it scales not the magnitude with which it scales.

If you rush tons of damage and max W you get little benifit out of the W.
If you rush attack speed and defense and max Q first you get little benefit out of the Q.
If you rush AS and defense and max W, your damage over the duration of W will likely be higher than if you maxed Q with AD.. but this can't really be called burst.
If you rush AD and max Q your initial burst will be greater than if you rushed AS and defense and maxed W first but your damage overtime will drop.

But what were looking at here is burst. Irelia does in fact have a means of closing the gap and near instagabbing with the nonsense that follows if she builds to do this. Now whether or not this glass cannon style is a good idea on irelia is not the focus here. History says no but her design still says assassin.

Long story short, Irelia meets the assassin requirements but she is not considered easily viable built for what assassins are (supposedly) supposed to do. She's kindof like the internet. It's designed for watching porn but its more viable as a tool for glorifying the greatness that is ahri.


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The Blue Jelly

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Okay yeah, you're just making me facepalm now...

*You get the same benefit from W no matter what you build.
*Q increases damage from bonus AD the same rate at r1 as it does at r5.
*The only difference is at r1 the CD is longer than at r5. Either way, the CD will be too long for multiple uses in a single trade until r5 and some CDR.

If you build AD and level W, your initial burst will be higher than if you build AD and level Q, because Q resets your AA and applies on-hit effects, guaranteeing two hits of W, and each level of W adds half the same increase in raw damage as leveling Q- only W adds True damage rather than Physical damage.
Doing it more often is not burst, it's DPS. Q gets you two hits of W every time, so you can count two W's for every Q you cast.




As to her "assassin" qualities...

Irelia's passive makes her incredibly hard to peel off of her target, as does her Q's CD and her E. Her R even gives her range and AoE.
She functions as an assassin simply because she does what every assassin is required to be able to do: Skip past the front line and get off her damage before anyone can stop her. In her case, it's because "one does not simply 'peel' an Irelia" rather than her dealing high burst.


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l MinimumWage l

Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Thubgar:
why do people insist on stupid things like this when the numbers are readily available? seriously, what the hell?

ahri is an assassin because of her high mobility and the fact taht she does the most damage when focused on a single target.


How can people say she has high mobility anymore? I introduced this game to my gf over a year ago and all she would play was ahri, sad to say now she has finally switched to another champion main as riot killed her softly and it became aggrivating to see how she could be countered to easily.

Her ult was nerfed to the ground, 4 nerfs to cooldown, the final one being a nerf to the speed of her ult. So now whos mobile? He has 3 nerf-ranged dashes and cant even be cast as fast as they could before. First champs that come to mind when you say mobility: Kassadin --> 5 second flash cooldown ult that damages. Akali --> 3 dashes that can target someone at the edge of your screen, can be done 4 times in a row if done properly.

600 AP Mediocre dmg is right, her scales are low (.33 on her main abilities), her orb more often than not hits only once, her W doesnt even work properly (when you see the range of how far it can hit, it does not target enemy champions until you are at half-range).

People dont consider her an assassin anymore.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
The Blue Jelly:
Okay yeah, you're just making me facepalm now...

*You get the same benefit from W no matter what you build.
*Q increases damage from bonus AD the same rate at r1 as it does at r5.
*The only difference is at r1 the CD is longer than at r5. Either way, the CD will be too long for multiple uses in a single trade until r5 and some CDR.

If you build AD and level W, your initial burst will be higher than if you build AD and level Q, because Q resets your AA and applies on-hit effects, guaranteeing two hits of W, and each level of W adds half the same increase in raw damage as leveling Q- only W adds True damage rather than Physical damage.
Doing it more often is not burst, it's DPS. Q gets you two hits of W every time, so you can count two W's for every Q you cast.




As to her "assassin" qualities...

Irelia's passive makes her incredibly hard to peel off of her target, as does her Q's CD and her E. Her R even gives her range and AoE.
She functions as an assassin simply because she does what every assassin is required to be able to do: Skip past the front line and get off her damage before anyone can stop her. In her case, it's because "one does not simply 'peel' an Irelia" rather than her dealing high burst.

:/ why do people wait till they start to make more sense before they facepalm

:/ I'm gonna do that. still gotta do the math though


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
l MinimumWage l:
How can people say she has high mobility anymore? I introduced this game to my gf over a year ago and all she would play was ahri, sad to say now she has finally switched to another champion main as riot killed her softly and it became aggrivating to see how she could be countered to easily.

Her ult was nerfed to the ground, 4 nerfs to cooldown, the final one being a nerf to the speed of her ult. So now whos mobile? He has 3 nerf-ranged dashes and cant even be cast as fast as they could before. First champs that come to mind when you say mobility: Kassadin --> 5 second flash cooldown ult that damages. Akali --> 3 dashes that can target someone at the edge of your screen, can be done 4 times in a row if done properly.

600 AP Mediocre dmg is right, her scales are low (.33 on her main abilities), her orb more often than not hits only once, her W doesnt even work properly (when you see the range of how far it can hit, it does not target enemy champions until you are at half-range).

People dont consider her an assassin anymore.

lol alot to discuss here.

I'll start by saying that even with no AP scaling or any scaling Ahri would still be an assassin. An assassin is not deemed an assassin purely off their damage.

Secondly, as long as she has a dash and benefits greatly from strong positioning and has the ability to get into position fast she is a mobile champ. Also her ult can still keep up with highlander yi and can still manage escape from rammus and voli.

Thirdly, she was nerfed to make her more fun to play against several times, then she got hit because her low risk skill pwnd in a tournament so in return she was given better ratios.

Lastly akali does not counter ahri, kass really doesnt either he just has a strong counterstrategy against her normal playstyle. If you don't play ahri regularly you have no business laning against kassadin or akali but its still fun. Akali is one of the few that can close gaps really well.. just something to beware of. Kass on the otherhand is a fellow mageassassin. Playing against mageassassins as a mageassassin requires a large amount of skill on both ends.

Ahri
Elise
Kass
Leblanc

anyone of these vs anyone of these is like one of those showdown scenes in a martial arts movie between the fighters with nasty tricks, poisons, and unorthadox weapons. Like at the end of samurai champloo, meteor scythe vs ryuku formless sword style. Or bruce lee vs the blind black guy at the end of game of death.


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Thubgar

Senior Member

03-24-2013

Quote:
l MinimumWage l:


600 AP Mediocre dmg is right, her scales are low (.33 on her main abilities), her orb more often than not hits only once, her W doesnt even work properly (when you see the range of how far it can hit, it does not target enemy champions until you are at half-range).

People dont consider her an assassin anymore.


1 dash is the norm. anything beyond that, or one on a short cd, is high mobility.

@ the bolded, stop being bad.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

03-24-2013

Quote:
Thubgar:
1 dash is the norm. anything beyond that, or one on a short cd, is high mobility.

@ the bolded, stop being bad.

lol, he also thinks the orbs dont work properly. xD technically maybe they dont but it sounds like he doesnt know how they work


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The Wraithlord

Junior Member

03-24-2013

Ahri has 0.33 ratios on her abilities. Almost True, but if you land your Q twice, its 0.66. Then W can hit 3 times a target, that is ~0.8 ratio, since it does have damage reduction on same target. Her E is pure utility being one of the best cc moves in the game, and has 0.35 Ap ratio. Then her ult is 1.05 her total AP, given you land the 3 dashes.

Total: ~2.9 of her AP. On low cd. If you do your combo correctly can land at least 2 Q. Ahri IS an assassin, but her skill cap is really high. Very High risk for High reward.


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