Quinn Feedback *Warning long post*

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footfoe

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invictrix View Post
I haven't gotten Quinn, because the whole point to her is bird form, but I keep wondering why would I want bird form like ever?
You are farming bot, your team is picking a fight mid, you want to get there quickly. Her ultimate feels alot like twisted fate's.

sometimes you just fall into a rhythm of using it effectivly and constantly being able to catch low HP champs trying to get away.


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Xocolatl

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Senior Member

03-21-2013

I love spamming Vault and scream "IMMAKNEEYOUINTHEFACE", but that's the extent of my love for her. I think it would be really, really nice if you can choose where she land after the vault, using similar mechanics and Draven's catch ability. You know, if you're running toward your target, you land on the opposing side of where you are now, etc. That way, you can really use it as a positioning tool.


My problem--blind does not properly apply mark, meaning that I can't activate her passive. But for some reason, Valor always mark the Vaulted target, which makes me look really cool using it.


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c0d3Man

Junior Member

03-21-2013

I have to agree with her not being target-able during her vault because that kinda defeats the purpose of it. I think she is a more difficult champ because her ult but it definitely needs something for teamfights. Even if the blind is longer so you can dive in, blind, annihilate the enemy adc,second cast, and vault away so you don't insta die.


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Sir Tiddles

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by c0d3Man View Post
I have to agree with her not being target-able during her vault because that kinda defeats the purpose of it.
The more I think about it, the more I think that it should just be immune to CC while doing her E (in both forms), but still targetable and able to take damage. This way it doesn't become a Vlad pool or Fizz playful/trickster which might be too strong on her avoiding damage, but it would make her E do its job in keeping distance without penalizing you for actually using it. To have any sort of chance at being remotely viable damage-wise, you need to be able to proc your passive twice in a fight but against most matchups using E just results in your death.

Quinn is naturally pretty frail, and her damage is definitely lower than melee bruisers with a charge, and she does not have hard CC in her kit. To accomplish much in a fight especially once you hit mid-game, pretty much all of your items need to have AD on them, even when going bruiser, with perhaps one item dedicated to pure tank. Her base damage definitely isn't high enough to warrant a trinity force + all tank like Irelia or someone.


Quote:
I think she is a more difficult champ because her ult but it definitely needs something for teamfights. Even if the blind is longer so you can dive in, blind, annihilate the enemy adc,second cast, and vault away so you don't insta die.
Her cooldowns are a little high for that kind of play unless you are already winning the fight pretty hard and you are diving in melee for some cleanup without much fear of dying yourself. If you are surviving 8 seconds in the melee, then it honestly doesn't matter what you do at that point because you already won.


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AlexanderXI

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Honestly I'd just be happy if they adjusted it so that she couldn't easily be CC'd mid flight of E. Either invulnerability or invisiblity would be nice. It would really solidify the utility of E. All the problems with distance and delay can be mitigated somewhat. However, giving the enemy a free potshot is somewhat silly to me.


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Galgus

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Senior Member

03-22-2013

I kind of hate her because of her blind and disengage,

I play Jungle AD Yi, and a blind is equivalent to a stun unless I run away with under half my health and make no further team-fight contribution.

I really wish blinds where just a next attack* misses thing, they shutdown ADCs who need to commit to a fight way too hard.

*(Or next two or three.)


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EndlessReign

Member

03-22-2013

I like Quinn a lot too, and I noticed a lot of the same things as everyone else when I first started playing her namely the long cooldown on R and the lack of survivability in bird form. She is clearly suffering because her win rate is still very low (check lolking.net) The good news is that I am not sure that she needs a very big buff at all to be viable at least as an ADC. The big problem is where to put her buff where it won't completely make her dominate in lane. Imo she is already strong in lane pre-6. Any buff or bugfix could make her pubstomp other adc's pre-6. My thoughts are to buff her ult so that she won't fall off as hard post-6. I would either give Valor a brief invulnerability to cc or a buff in armor when ult is cast. Since he is melee he should have melee like stats, and I'm pretty sure that his built-in armor is lower than most (if not all) melee attackers because he shares it with Quinn. Or one other idea that I like a lot is an instant refresh on the cooldown just for E (Valor's gap closer) on casting ult. I like this idea because lots of times I combo E-AA-Q with Quinn and then I go to Valor to finish them off it would be nice to have the ult cooldown my gap closer or as I mentioned before some extra armor so that I can survive long enough to get close.


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Sir Tiddles

Senior Member

03-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by EndlessReign View Post
I like Quinn a lot too, and I noticed a lot of the same things as everyone else when I first started playing her namely the long cooldown on R and the lack of survivability in bird form.
...
I would either give Valor a brief invulnerability to cc or a buff in armor when ult is cast. Since he is melee he should have melee like stats, and I'm pretty sure that his built-in armor is lower than most (if not all) melee attackers because he shares it with Quinn. Or one other idea that I like a lot is an instant refresh on the cooldown just for E (Valor's gap closer) on casting ult. I like this idea because lots of times I combo E-AA-Q with Quinn and then I go to Valor to finish them off it would be nice to have the ult cooldown my gap closer or as I mentioned before some extra armor so that I can survive long enough to get close.
These are good comments, and especially important to note is that all of her stats are the same as Valor form including survivability, AD, and base and AD ratios on Q and E. I think that last part is especially important because you expect to do more damage when your ult is activated, but it is actually the exact same damage with the addition of the perma-AS buff and the removal of her passive (which in my eyes kind of cancel each other out). Especially considering how kite-able and susceptible to CC Valor is, you almost never put out more actual damage in Valor form during any fight beyond a 1v1 where you aren't worrying about CC and being bursted down.


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Z0nne

Senior Member

03-22-2013

The problem with Quinn is her Ultimate, there's no reason you would want to engage in melee as a squishy ADC and when chasing Valor is easily kitable because of the in combat movement speed drops to 20%, this means that if your enemy runs trough minions you wont catch him. So i end up using her ulti to only move around the map and this sucks with the 2 minute cooldown

I suggest dropping her cooldown on Valor to like 80 seconds, I mean there are finisher ultimates with way lower cooldowns (I'm looking at you Lux!) and maybe tweak her passive to be more responsive and to do something while in Valor form.


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Sir Tiddles

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z0nne View Post
The problem with Quinn is her Ultimate, there's no reason you would want to engage in melee as a squishy ADC and when chasing Valor is easily kitable because of the in combat movement speed drops to 20%, this means that if your enemy runs trough minions you wont catch him. So i end up using her ulti to only move around the map and this sucks with the 2 minute cooldown
I would say this is one of her problems, but it is by no means her biggest issue. The dps loss for using E (you aren't autoattacking while you are vaulting to and fro, which is 2-3 autoattacks later on), and her low scalings while also being naturally squishier than other ADCs with her range while also being a melee champ are bigger issues in my eyes. Also the fact that the only DPS increase in Valor form is the AS buff is a huge issue for me -- if I'm transforming into a giant bird I expect my Q and E to do more damage, and also maybe base/bonus AD/armor/MR to be higher.

Valor is very kite-able, but just for clarity, the 20% is not 20% of max movespeed, it drops to 120% of max movespeed.

Quote:
I suggest dropping her cooldown on Valor to like 80 seconds, I mean there are finisher ultimates with way lower cooldowns (I'm looking at you Lux!) and maybe tweak her passive to be more responsive and to do something while in Valor form.
I agree her ult is a bit too high of a cooldown. I also agree with the passive not doing anything in Valor form -- even if everything about her was considered balanced, it still feels weird to not have a passive when you ult.