Haltir, Wrath of the Eclipse

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Epsilaun

Senior Member

03-19-2013

Rough idea i made when i was bored in middle of class one night, i liked the ideas tho actual numbers and other balance issues, well thats obviously something i didnt think too deeply about but

Haltir, Wrath of the Eclipse

Lore:

Long ago there were Two warriors, Haldaen of the Solari and Tirash of the Lunari. Though the two groups had long apposed eachother, the two had remained the strongest of friends and rivals even after they were separated after the discovery of their powers within the ranks of the Rakkor. They would meet in secret to catch up on old times and battle regularly.

However the Lunari had begun to slip from their path of pure moonlight, tainting their ways with the power of the Void.

After overhearing plans to destroy the Solari and continue to delve deeper into the void for power, Tirash left the Lunari to warn Haldaen and the Solari of the coming danger. However the Solari attacked at their gates not trusting him. Haldaen rushed to his aid of his Lunari friend. After listening to Tirash's testimony, the two tried to reason with the Solari to listen and prepare, but it was too late because it was then that the Lunari struck. At some point during the battle the Fallen Lunari began to call down a beam of void tainted moonlight, seeking to destroy the Solari and their traitor in one fell swoop. Tirash and Haldaen together put all that they had into stopping. When aftermath had cleared there only stood one figure, one whose body shifted with the light of the sun and the moon, an Eclipse, never fully shining with either light. Together with their new body, Haldaen and Tirash crushed the Lunari forces and proceeded to eradicate them across Valoran lest they continue down their fallen path.

Afterward, seen as an abomination by the Solari, Haltir, the two whom were now one, left and has traversed the border of Runeterra and the void, in an endless conflict to keep back the forces of the Void.

Centuries later Haltir has reappeared in Valoran, seeking to restore the Lunari to their former grace and unite with the Solari so that the tragedy of their demise might not be repeated.

" The Solari Elders hid the existence of the Lunari after their disappearance until they were lost to time. However Haltir remembers, Haltir was there." Haltir

(Additional Optional Lore: In addition to seeking to remove void taint from the world, possibly tie him into what led Diana to the ruins, but he is ashamed of his failure with her due to her losing her humanity/ hatred for the Solari.

Authors thoughts on Lore: : I wanted to create a character who's lore both (while taking some liberties) answered some unquestioned facts in the Lunari/Solari lore, such as, where did the Lunari go? If Diana is able to find ruins, generally ruins mean the group was strong enough to sizable / well established. We have no idea why they are gone, nor why the Solari have a hatred for them. Just because they don't worship the sun does not mean that they have always been so hostile to them, as the Solari do not destroy all the Rakkor who do not worship. Clearly the Lunari have done something worthy of hatred/destruction (as shown by Diana's attempted execution). Plus it gives an opportunity to find more detail about the void later on, cause right now all we really have is its a dark scary place of unspeakable horrors birthing creatures such as Chogath and will change people, whether possession like Malzahar or physical change like Kassadin (even if he was lucky enough to maintain his mind).

I'll admit I took liberties with my lore, ties to the void are a pretty drastic idea to try and throw in there but, apart from establishing a reason for them being hated, i feel it opens up new possibilities. As far as I'm aware ( and i have checked the map provided by journals of justice and scoured the lore's of Leona, Pantheon, and Diana carefully, and i have NO indication of just where mount Targon is. There is a Mount Garganuan on the map, but no Targon, so unless they are one in the same, it is very possible that mount Targon could be close to the ruins of Icathia, which could be an old Lunari City/Temple thus making it a weak point in the world for the void creatures to enter (Chogath and the like), or simply the place that influenced them to turn toward the Void, that was the center of Void corruption, It too is in ruins which could be explained by Haltir's destruction of the Lunari / anything associated with the void.

The only possible real contradiction, and not just something i made up simply because there is nothing saying its wrong (as far as im aware, unless there is something hidden within the Journals of Justice i do not know about, this is a fan creation anyway, so new ideas are supposed to come up) is Haldaen's ability to use Solar magic. Leona's lore says "no other warrior possessed the gifts of the founder – until Leona." now gifts is vague, it does not necessarily mean only person capable of using the power, could simply mean the use of the power so proficiently. I am not making Haldaen or Tirash experts/the most powerful of their tribe, only successful warriors of each discipline, whom are now a strong being due to being two separate skilled beings who are now one. So this could work, unless I See a post stated by a Riot staff that specifically states she is the only one period since the founder. (or other lore discrepancies I am unaware of, tho to my knowledge that should be the only one).

Iv had comments on this fusion being a bad idea due to conflicting ideals. These two managed to respect eachother / remain friends despite being taken to separate groups. They trust each other and do not have a hatred for the others beliefs/power, it was simply not the one they were trained in. Such like minded/reasonable individuals could share the same mind, until time took its toll and they are now a single consciousness that supports both groups/beliefs, but knows the failures of the past and would be able to act as a moderator/ judge in case of Lunari so that they remain pure.


General description of character: Model is heavily shrouded in darkness, shifting between a crisp, red glow of an outline/aura in solar stance, and a softer, blue lit aura in lunar. Armor also shifts to show differences between the two cultures/groups that make up one individual.
Being a being who was two beings lost to the ages into one mind, Haltir speaks in third person, and while aggressive in attitude, is not evil/warmongering, he has strong views of justice/order/peace, so sides more on the ionian/demacia side though he is first and foremost Rakkor (since Solari are simply a Sect of them).

Lunari side (Tirash) has lighter armor on his upper body, mostly consisting of Chainmail with a few plates at key places (shoulders and such). He wields a long (Two Handed) katana that has a small crescent at the base of the handle similar to Diana's Crescent Blade (tho slightly Narrower/less sharp curve to it). Mostly out of Stylistic choice Lunari/Triash is not armored on his right arm (primary sword arm) and has simple Tribal Tattoos running up it. Normal standing Stance is calm,right arm holding sword over shoulder with left hand on belt/waist like if there was a scabbard to rest it on. Running motion is leaned forward with sword at his side in both hands.

Solari (Haldaen) has a heavy armor set, covered in plate. He wields a shield in his right hand and a one handed weapon in his left (preference is a double edged sword, however an axe or mace might be more appropriate due to avoiding being too much like Leona). Shield is pointed at bottom/front somewhat similar in concept to a Uruk Hai shield from Lord of the Rings, held with arm down length of shield allowing for jabs with the pointed end. Standing stance is somewhat leaning forward with shield pointed down, as if bracing to plant the shield into the ground to stop an overwhelming blow, weapon held out at the ready (upon further reflection this stance seems kinda similar to current full metal pantheon's splash art, tho slightly more hunched). Running motion brings his arm up across his chest, held more forward, if weapon is sword would hold slightly on top of shield or along bottom (attacking) edge of shield, ready to strike/stab, if mace or axe would simply be held out to the side ready to strike.

Quote ideas (these will probably suck, oh well)
Character Select: "The Void will not Last"
On first rank up of Q (like when vayne gets silver bolts) "Two whom are One in light!"
Movement: "Haltir will go." "To end the darkness" "For the world of the twin lights!"
Attack: "Solar Flare!" "Shadow of the Moon" "Haltir shall Strike" "None Shall Stop this Light!"
Joke: "Dont look into the eyes, you might go blind *flash of sunlight* " "Stop your howling, its not a full moon *flash of moonlight* "
Taunt: "The Void trembles at the Light of Haltir!" "No one can hide from the Light!"
Dance idea: Haltir temporarily splits into shadowy images of moon and sunlight that duel eachother, sword dance.

Additional Skin Ideas
Haldaen and Tirash: Pre fusion of the two warriors. Removes shadowy obscurity of default skin, allowing for clean looks at armor/face, removes voice warble/distortion that would be used (think like kass, only obviously different/unique to champion)
Infernal Ice Haltir: Lunari side transformed into Fire animations/model, and Solari side transformed into an Icy warrior. Ice felt more protective than fire despite the sun being made of fire.
Purified Haltir: Haltir has lost the impurity bleeding over each stance, no longer appearing Eclipsed and now stands as figures of pure moon and sunlight (Lunari would be similar to ghostly Gangplank and Solari would be a sun colored ghostly figure)
Einherjar Haltir: Einherjar were the warriors picked by Valkyries for battle at ragnarok, seeing as how diana and leona both have valkyrie skins, seems fitting. (this may be a bit much for a normal skin but) possibly let him have a wing, switching shoulders on shift (one winged angel sorta thing, yes i know a sephiroth reference how original) I dunno could be cool. Model would be more similar to purified haltir due to lack of elements/sun and moon energies obscuring his figure

General Play Style: Haltir is an aggressive melee who shifts between his two eclipsed states, pulling on the fighting styles of the two warriors he used to be.

The Lunar Eclipse is built to be more like a fighter, having high mobility and a relentless attack style.

The Solar Eclipse is an aggressive tank, built to reward aggressive (meaning risky) behavior for both himself, and allies.

I wanted to take the stance shifting mechanic of jayce and nid to a different level, by making still two very different skill sets, while making them both melee and allowing for there to be an "ultimate slot" still, tho this

Stats, For the most part, stats are given as an estimate of what i think might be balanced, i could be wrong but i am trying to avoid making a blatantly overpowered champion such that plagues forums

I'm undecided between deciding whether or not this champion should use mana or not. Could be pure CD based or Mana. Eclipse charges are an additional resource that behaves like Heimer turrets/zyra plants being that it simply stacks as on the buff bar, and is used to empower his shift (more later) Comments on if this would be balanced to allow this champion to be resource-less or not (note i do provide alternatives to some abilities, consider which ones you prefer)

Champion was designed around being a Support bottom or a solo top, however ability set leads me to believe that Haltir would be a good jungler as well.

Passive: Eclipsed Might Every third strike generates an Eclispe Charge and also generates an additional effect depending on what stance Haltir is in. Hit count will transfer between Stances (Example: 2 hits in Lunar, Switches to Solar, first hit in Solar (being third hit total) would activate the passive.) Max: 5 charges

Lunar: bonus attack of 50% damage (AKA total AD) that applies all on hit effects other than counting toward this passive (Example: would proc two hits of Witt's end or Hydra and benefits from lifesteal, but would still let counter for passive be reset to 0)

Solar: shields Haltir and nearby allies are given a shield based on Haltir's defensive stats (some combination of MR and armor scaling, personal thoughts are like 10-20% each + small base amount or maybe just like 25-30% each no base)

Authors notes: Designed Lunar to be a more aggressive choice, allowing on hit effects to boost for a more relentless feeling attack style, While Solar is designed to be effective when playing Tank. The Tanky DPS style builds that would favor a solo top typical builds would still boost solar's passive (and other abilities) somewhat, however most rewarded for building heavily tanky for support reasons.

Q: Solar/Lunar Eclipse: Haltirs Q will be the spell shifting stances, allowing bonus effects to be unlocked as ranked up, and leaving an ultimate slot open. While this ability is automatically available at level one, it will ONLY allow shifting for the purpose of the passive, until points are put into it, giving this ability 6 ranks, the first of which does nothing more than the shift. Rank 2+ unlocks the additional effects when shifting
Estimate CD: 5 or 6 seconds.

Lunar Eclipse:

Passively gains slight increase in attack range while in Lunar Eclipse (Similar to Riven ulti, maybe slightly less) not much but a little bit more than an average melee.
Upon Switching into Lunar Eclipse, Haltir will consume Eclipse Charges to empower his next 1-6 hits (based on number of Eclipse Charges) to deal an additional amount of damage per hit, to the main target hit, and 2 additional targets (only applies bonus damage to targets, not normal AD+bonus) Estimate Values would be 15/20/25/30/35% Total AD as bonus damage per hit.

Visually would be a Glowing Orb appearing at the Crescent at the base of the sword handle / Steaks of moonlight to nearby targets with slight flash on main target hit, small, subtle.

Solar Eclipse:
Passively increases MR/armor while in Solar Eclipse (10-25 as ranks up, so relatively small, don't want too strong)
Shifting into Solar Eclipse causes Haltir to give a brief movement speed boost to him and nearby allies for 1 second, and consumes Eclipse Charges to grant % damage reduction to nearby allies and allies ONLY. Estimate Range would be like Oriannas W for aura of % reduction and MS boost.

Two Choices of how this spell will work

Choice 1: Lets the % reduction for allies scale off ability rank (10/15/20/25/30%) with Duration scaling with Eclipse Charges with 1.5 seconds + 0.5 second duration per charge Consumed (max 4 seconds)
OR
Choice 2: Let duration scale off level (2 / 2.5 / 3 / 3.5 / 4 seconds) with power scaling off Charges Consumed (10 + 5% charges consumed)

Visually, Haltir Radiates a small aura of Sunlight.

Authors Notes: Designed to be stronger than most stance shifting bonuses as i will make other abilities weaker than other stance shifters by comparison. Charge system was implemented to apply an internal limiter to the power so that they were not too strong constantly flipping back and forth ever CD of Q, meaning the benefit of changing increases the longer you have been in current stance (to a point).

W: This ability is in a rough spot and needs the most work i feel to determine this champions viability and also whether or not to use resources (mana) or not. Criticism is welcome as is new ideas, However i have 2 options


Eye of the Moon / Eye of the Sun
Version 1:
Lunar: Passively allows Haltir to reveal enemies who hit him and are " hidden" would apply a short duration (1-2 second) that would activate the sight if champion falls out of vision (Akali fades into cloud, champion becomes hidden by bushes, champion flashes over a wall/ strikes from over wall to begin with) if champion becomes "hidden" activates the sight granting revealing for 2 seconds. Has a CD for every separate champion, decreasing as ranked up (like udyr stun for CD per target) Estimate CD 35/30/25/20/15 makes "Kiting" difficult and allows for some utility in a fight (akali vanish). Cannot be reduced by CDR

Solar: Passively allows Haltir to see enemy weaknesses, allowing him to "micro knock up" (think Maokai Q knockup, very very small, effectively does nothing other than interrupt channels and slight stutter to movement, no real push or effective hard CC) and reduce armor and MR of target 15% for a few seconds (3- 5 seconds?) on melee (again, like Udyr stun, internal CD) CD reduces on rank up: Estimate 18/16/14/12/10, not reduced by CDR

Version 2
Lunar: Activates the damage bonus from Lunar Eclipse consuming Eclipse charges, however bonus damage will only hit main target hit by basic and not the additional 2. In addition,Haltir will reveal 1 "nearby" champion, prioritizing Champions a champion most recently hit by Haltir ("nearby" meaning at least within range of his E as seen below) for 2 (maybe 3) seconds, significant CD, like 45/40/35/30/25 seconds as ranked up
Solar: Activates Damage Reduction from Solar Eclipse, but does not grant a speed boost, in addition. In addition Haltir sees the weaknesses in enemies within the AOE, causing Haltirs attacks/spells against them to reduce Armor and MR 15% for 4 seconds. Estimate 45/40/35/30/25 CD as it ranks up

Authors Notes: Either version of this ability is to add slight utility to the kit. Version 1 is made passives due to wishing to keep amount of abilities under control/lowered to allow for a resource-less champion. Also by limiting the number of castable abilities on a stance shifting character I feel it better justifies letting this champion keep 2 "Ultimate" abilities

Version 2 was more made around some better synergy with the Shift effects. The cooldowns were made long so that it was not too beneficial to stay in 1 stance for a REALLY long time by just getting bonuses out of W. However i put limitations/trade offs. MS was removed in favor of stat reduction to encourage helping team finish someone off and finish the fight rather than run from Solar, for Lunar I left the multi target part off so that it wasnt too strong in team fights but the reveal would let him say chase down someone who jumped out of the fight. This puts utility into Haltir but due to losing charges, forces a temporary commitment to the stance he is in to finish the job, as Shifting from solar into Lunar would probably provide more raw damage, but does not have team synergy putting you in a better position as support. For Lunar, Shifting into Solar in a 1v1 fight, or a fight where your target is escaping, would have very little benefit since Solar lacks the mobility and damage if you are focused as a fighter. This gives you an option to finish the fight with an extra burst, but prevents you from saving teammates.

Visually Reveal would be a beam of moonlight on target (for either choice) and a slight glow left on enemies who have resistances lowered.

E: Lunar: Arcing Moonlight:
Haltir enhances his next attack (a la Nasus, Rengar, etc....) resetting attack timer and allowing Haltir"s attack to allow him to leap to his target (like Rengars leap, but on cast), this enhancement will deal no bonus damage apart from it being another hit, and will generate a charge regardless of passive count (so if this hit is the third hit for passive, it will generate 2 charges) Basic attacks will reduce the CD of this ability by 0.5 seconds (1.0 for champions) Estimate CD 14/12/10/8/6, Range likely will increase over ranks, exact range values i do not know, tho likely at max rank should be comparable to an un bonetooth enhanced rengar leap.

Blade Glows with pale moonlight when active but unused, leaving a visual ark of moonlight in air for moment after he leaps

Solar: Flare:
The solar energies contained within haltir burst for but a moment, damaging nearby enemies for base damage+ % of Haltirs max health (damage is magic), hitting enemy champions generates an Eclipse Charge, limit 1 Charge per cast. Estimate HP scaling 4.5 / 5 / 5.5 / 6 / 6.5%. CD: 8/7/6/5/4 This ability CD is reduced by 0.5 seconds per basic attack (1.0 seconds for Champions)

Visually Similar to Leona's W, burst of sunlight around Haltir.

Originally proposed lower option of lower scaling than that did true damage instead, this idea was shot down (was only an alternative) for those who read comments following and get confused why they say true damage

Authors notes: Designed for both abilities to be a Charge Generator. Lunar's was made to give the champion what i felt would be the signature sticking ability, CD may be a bit low with CD reduction but i want to reward aggressive behavior and since it does not apply bonus damage to the hit itself, might be balanced with a CD as low as is, maybe. Solar was meant to give pure tank builds a notable help to team fights, low CD AOE based on his health means A building tanky does not make him useless as he does not provide high CC (B) his constant damage makes him a target worth fighting. So often i see pure tanks just get left out for last simply because they are too hard to kill, and if that champ also does not provide high CC or damage, there is no point to ever target them. while prioritizing carries is generally always best sometimes you just HAVE to get the tank cause they are providing too much CC/safety for the carry. This combined with Solar passive makes Haltir worth targetting and therefor not useless as a tank.

Ultimate abilities will also have multiple Ideas, mix an match however you see fit
Ultimate: Lunar: Piercing Moon: Haltir flashes through his target (think typical anime samurai lightning fast sliding slash) and then kicks his target back toward direction he came from (estimate knockback, about 50-75% of singeds fling range) reducing CD as ranks up. scales 150% of total AD, estimate 75/60/45 second CD Max rank, (physical damage) decent range

Option 2: Skillshot, does pretty much exactly the same as Option 1 BUT does NOT move Haltir and will hit all targets within skillshot. Visually would do what original without the kick, but of a moonlight image of him doing it from max range of ultimate toward himself decent range CD might increase to something along 90/75/60

Both would knock a fixed distance, meaning if for example the knockback was = 1/2 the casting range (which I'm NOT saying it is) hitting max range would bump target to halfway point between max and cast points. Halfway would bring them to cast point, Point blank would put behind cast point.

Authors Note: Meant to continue relentless style Lunar has been built as. Saw problem with Option 1 for both lunar and Solar being made together with TOO much mobility, so i decided to cut back by providing options that do not move Haltir. If Passive options were chosen for W, these abilities would probably add a base damage per rank on top of scaling, but not a super high one.

Also for any Bleach fans, an alternate choice to the name: Zangetsu. Was used as a character name in final fantasy and i have not heard of lawsuits, so long as it isnt the name of his sword/ it doenst transform im pretty sure there would be no grounds for a lawsuit, its the name of the technique.

Solar: Raging Sunlight: Haltir Charges forward dealing damage (undetermained what scaling if any, but not intended to be a high damage ability) and slowing all enemies he comes in contact with, at the end of the charge Haltir Gains a temporary boost to his defensive stats (undetermined % increase, or flat increase) Estimate Slow 50% with a small (1 maybe 2 seconds), think a slightly weaker hecarim Ult that doesnt do hard CC, but on a shorter CD. Estimate CD 55/35/20 seconds, Character model either glows more brightly or has signs of flame for duration of defensive stat increase. (magical damage)

Option 2: leaps to target ally ally Champion (or just on self, might need to think of a bonus if used on self) that raises MR/AR of Haltir, and makes a wall of light that for the first time an enemy walks into it, does damage and knocks them back. Estimate CD 90/75/60 Estimate Cast range, I'm thinking something like maybe around Caits Q/Varus nearly full charged Q, i want this ability to be good to save someone with, leap in and block the path

Authors Notes: First option was made to give Solar a good way to initiate, and also an escape mechanism, however i have greatly fallen out of favor of this option personally in favor of option two. While this limits his surviability due to no longer having a way to easily cross walls (requires an ally to target) it gives him a more supportive option (as is the role of the Solar Stance)

If in theory this champ was made and my Zangetsu was used, would be cool to have an equally fitting name for this, something that means something like burning sun or something.

Example Builds: Just some general ideas of what kind of build im imagining would be good on roles

Top: Greaves, BotRK, Hydra, Frozen Mallet, Bulwark, then Cleaver/GA/Sunfire/Merc scimitar based on needs. Or maybe a more typical Treads, BT, FM, Hex, Cleaver +wtv last item

Support: Boots as needed, Witts, Bulwark, Randuins, Frozen Mallet, Locket or Shurelia

Jungle: Boots as needed, Elder Lizard, FM, BT, Bulwark, Triforce/gauntlet/Mogs

Something along those lines is what i would expect


Design goals behind this champion were to make a champion that plays aggressive regardless of being a DPS or a Tank. lunar abilities were made around being incredibly sticky, while not actually providing tons of CC, so that you can say, stay on their carries, without being some OP perma slow like Skarner (and i say OP due to 2 gap closers in the lunar stance alone potentially, not that Skarners Q is OP) while each hit/ability isnt necessarily strong (his ulti will do less damage than those with on next basic attack enhance to 200% dmg such as shyv and darius) but build a high amount of damage and you will be just as frightening with your stickiness

Solar was meant to be an aggressive supporting tank, with defensive stat scalings designed to encourage a pure tank build if you should, while the % health damage on E along with its short CD makes him viable in a fight due to not having 0 damage output. This way the pure tank benefits his allies as well with his passive shielding them if he remains aggressive and hitting, shielding will not stack if unconsumed but is there to provide a constant small shield if he remains constantly on the attack, shield duration isnt intended to be long so it wont be like the team is pre shielded before a fight. Also the ability to % reduce ally damage taken like Maokai makes him prioratize keeping allies safe if taken this role. but the area on this will be small aura around him (no where close to mao, think like around the size of Oriana and her slow circle) With the ulti intending to be a strong initiation, slowing while prepping Haltir to take a beating for jumping into the middle of the team like that

Character themes line up with Diana (moon) being the offenseive side while sunlight (leona) being defensive.

All in all i wanted Haltir to be Complex balancing act but overall i think the playstyle is still simple, risk reward, play aggressive for more benefits to stay aggressive, but your doing so at your own risk.

Anywho, thoughts /feedback, constructive please, you can voice your disapproval but no unnecessary flaming, no one wants that.


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LazyStyle

Senior Member

03-23-2013

so this is basicly a more AD diana? im just guessing from scanning through..


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Epsilaun

Senior Member

03-23-2013

how is this in any way a AD diana? not a burst character, viability for support not just damage role, no ranged harass at all. non mana based. The only thing connecting to diana is lore and "multiple gap closers" i guess you could say


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pyapiopi

Senior Member

04-02-2013

Ok not gonna lie there is so much here that by the end maybe I forgot something so if anything is wrong correct me

First comment. No way can this guy be non mana based. His skill set provides so much utility that having no resource required to use a skill (yes you need a charge to get maximum effect) would be ridiculous in my opinion. This gives you a support (looks to be the best role) that can constantly not only harass with decent damage and soft cc but at the same time stick to the target giving him and his allies shields. But I digress lets go through each skill separately

Passive: I confused on this. You get charges every 3 hits. Ok. But how do you get those bonus effects? All the skill descriptions already mention a bonus gained from charges so o you get that and the passive bonus? If so that's way too much. Essentially your saying late game you can give a team wide shield (let's be honest solar is way better for a support role and lunar doesn't bring enough to top IMO) every 3 hits. That's bonkers. Unless the shield is only like 100 hp but then it's awful. So please clarify your passive before I comment more.

Q: I like the idea of ranking up the stance switch and I like the idea of this being his only 0 mana cost skill. BUT his lunar buff is **** compared to his solar and his solar buff is so ridiculously good. I'm gonna explain two reasons I like it, but don't at the same time.

I'm not sure if you have played garen. He had a 30% Dmg reduction skill. It is very very noticeable on him (a tanky guy). Imagine giving that to your ADC. If its good on a champ that take 150 per hit and lowers that to 115 imagine on a champ that takes 250/hit and lowering that to 175. On the flip side is it only a 15% Dmg reduction? Look at moakai. His ult does that and no one ever notices it, but man is it helping. It's a lot of invisible power that you won't notice but makes a world of difference and putting this on a skill you can theoretically use over and over will be over powered or severely underpowered. And those are no fun.

W: here is a skill I dislike all around. It does nothing for Haltir except enhance two of his skills. Passively lowers the cd of his E and just lets you use his Q again. For one refer back to my Q post on why that's bad enough. But there is zero reason to level this over a one-point wonder. I'm wondering is the only thing that will scale with skill levels your cd? Does it use your Q level to determine effects or does it take your W level and applies that? If its the second one then how do you tool tip that? It will look exactly like Q except minus the two effects you take away.

Every skill should enhance the character in some way. Heimer is a perfect example. His ult only enhanced his turrets and it was so underwhelming ppl would take it once at 6 then never again till 17/18.

E: Love it. Perfect except please no true damage based on Haltir HP. On someone that sticky you can easily build upwards of 4k health since he has natural tankyness. Even at 4% that's 160 true damage AoE every 4 seconds (before CD). Keep it magic damage and be able to raise it to a scaling 4/4.5/5/5.5/6% with a 8/7/6/5/4 cd and its perfect IMO.

Lunars bonus effect as well is great. Has its own benefit that can compete with splats usage unlike his other skills.

R: here I actually think Lunar is better. Displacement is huge in this game. And a slow on a low damage ultimate is hugely unsatisfying. Maybe slow targets hit during charge but targets hit at the end are stunned for 1 second. Idk something to make it feel like a ultimate and not a basic gap closer.


Hope you like the feedback and I love discussing stuff like this. Please comment on my champ idea as well Jetrix the dark ravager


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Epsilaun

Senior Member

04-02-2013

I had not intended this to be a CD only champ, suppose i shoulda specified that the charges were in addition. Tho low mana costs so he can not feel super limited, but yea agreed, not cooldown only, though you can argue infinate harrassment with champs like shen and mundo who i often find in supporting lane, being aggressive, effectivly non resourced supports.

Passive, the bonus effect happens every 3rd hit as well, for lunar think of it like a weaker yi, that happens more often, seeing as how this champ will be building more tanky AD, you likely wont have to worry about crits, which is one of the things that makes a yi double hit so powerful is when it double crits, unless i misunderstand him somehow. The shielding on solar is intended to be fairly low since every 3rd hit is really VERY often, esspecially if you say, have a wits end for AS? i wanted it to scale off defensive stats to encourage a REAL tank build rather than stacking tons of HP while getting AD items that provide stats, so while it will get stronger for the tanky DPS of focusing on lunar, building a pure tank support can provide a LOT of team damage prevention, if oyu invest in being said support.

Q: Lunars is his main damage buff that keys in with rapid hitting, combined with current W (which i will say now, yea im pretty disapointed with, i ran out of ideas so that is completely open to a new iteration, tho it will require moving the CD reduction to the E slot ability, i want to keep that furious assault going) is the only real damage "boost", considered letting it do the full bonus damage to the main target and then less to alternate targets on W activate, but this lets damage be spread, useful for team fights, could do with some new iteration.
Solar Q: i recognize its powerful, but this is one of the reasons i made it only effect allies and not himself, so that he doesnt become a juggernaut like garen, and the area is small so its very very unlikely he can keep it over more than 1, maybe 2 allies. It is also the reason i offered duration vs %, if he is massing his aura without fully charging 1 or 2 second 30% reduction wont be THAT effective, nor would say only a 10% for 5 seconds if the % scaled off charges. Moa and Garens are strong cause they can last for so long, and maos esspecially since it is a large AOE.

W: yea, feel free to come up with a new idea, i wanted it to be a ranked passive but that was the one ability had trouble thinking an idea, seeing as how there was so much with his normal passive.

E:Lunar: this i was pretty certain would be a more defining spell, just holds the idea of, STICKY melee.
Solar: True damage was an afterthought, im tired of any time i play a tank doing **** for damage, even if they have like a health scaling damage ability, i feel like no matter how much i try to peel, it ends up meaning nothign cause once that slow is gone, whats the point in paying attention to me, thats when the thought of lowering the damage a little so it isnt too powerful, but doing true damage, that makes him scary enough to focus on him, even if he is the tank. Something dota has shown me after revisiting, missing tanks actually doing enough to make them worth taking out. was only an idea to provide options to be voted on.

R: Lunar: Is intended to be a bit stronger for lunar due to somewhat lackluster for the rest, all in all even great stickyness means nothing if you contribute little for the rest of your team, damage was kept low to allow it to be used reletivly often, but not too much since he already has a gap closer on short CD. a little extra burst for someone with reletivly low numbers to keep that assault going.
Solar: with the strong team supporting skills, i felt giving him this escape option/engaging option would be good, i considered a stun at the end, but then opted to go for the defense boosting, both for survivability to give him reason to be diving in, and second to temporarily boost his passives ability to shield himself and allies. also kept damage low to avoid even tho i kept other numbers low, the potential for too much burst. Seeing as this champ is tank>damage as apposed to say, jayce or elise, who are really damage dealers, even if some jayces tend to build quite tanky. doing say, Solar form, ulti, AOE burst/hit, shift hit (bonus shift damage), E (instant swing+3rd hit procs passive) R all in a row could be unsettling to some people., i dunno, its hard to say without an actual game to test him on.

That is why i often gave vague values for spells, i understand just how badly some people can guess numbers (saw once a champ around the time of khazix) who litterally had 4 toggle abilities, swapping between 2 passives on each of the 4 slots. In total if you put 1 set of each of the 4 slots, you could make a champ who has a passive 50% AS + large ammount of AD, forgot how much, a stacking 5% max health over time per basic attack, stacking 4 times, regenerated 30-200 health per 5 depending on how low health was with % magic damage reduction, and then last slot (only one ill consider letting flip) flipped between basically an AOE jax ultimate passive, that hits harder than jax, and an Cassiopias ultimate on melee, that has internal CD like udyr, but while said internal CD is active, you get +50% CRIT........just utterly rediculous even if all he had was basic attacks......maybe the passive flipping idea would work, i mean udyr isnt useless, but with numbers and such like that......wow.........

so yea, i put more numbers than i had intended, but, was to avoid simply making a good idea, then getting flamed for horrible numbers


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pyapiopi

Senior Member

04-02-2013

I'm gonna provide more feedback from your last response but real quick just wanted to say I like the passive now that I understand it better. But you are going to need to go In depth more on the resource system if you want him to be mans less. He need some type of limitation with that much utility. Shen has one cc spell and still can run out of energy


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Epsilaun

Senior Member

04-02-2013

My example of shen and mundo (and now zac, it works pretty well) as aggressive reletivly resourceless tanky supports was just to say, you could argue another resource/CD based, not saying this particular character SHOULD be that way either tho.

Rewinding to my current W, again i still didnt like it, but it felt like it gave the option to stay in 1 stance longer, while you can build charges reletivly quickly, if you say wanted to get a good damage reduction aura to help save someone quickly, you might not want to leave your tank stance, with its shielding passive and whatnot, but then to get the % reduction,y ou would have to swap to lunar, lose all charges, build them up again, then switch back, which can take a long time, so it felt like it had its place.

I suppose magic with closer to scaling you sugested might be better for the E slot ability in solar, the true damage i felt was a long shot even with low scaling and i wasnt particularly attached to it.

Thought of an Alternative Q bonus for lunar, what if instead of the 1 boosted attack, it always hit 3 targets+the bonus on main target with scaling damage, that lasts for a number of hits based on charges, like say 25% boost for 1-5 hits or something? something that makes it a little less lackluster?


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pyapiopi

Senior Member

04-03-2013

I like the alternative bonus to Q lunar. Gives it a little more oomph in a team fight setting, which is something lunar is lacking (albeit his dueling seems pretty strong).

Ya with E maybe scaling magic damage equal to 4/4.75/5/5.75/6.5% of Haltirs max HP in magic damage. It's AoE so unlike Volibear you don't want a high ratio. And sejuani's ratio in her similar skill is high considering its a constant PBAoE but she lacks damage in her kit generally so it works. Even the solar form here has the ability to do damage, and still even switch to do more. So i feel a high % would be too much.

His W though is the trick. His solar has 2 amazing spells already and his lunar has 1 spell that is amazing for sticking to a target and another for team fighting, but lacks a true single target spell like a damage dealer should.

So lunar W needs to be something that does damage to a single target or enhances his single target damage. His Q doesn't have enough oomph to be a fight decider in a duel so I am thinking something along the lines of a simple solution. Don't need to go super creative with this as his kit has enough of that already. So maybe a simple

Haltir swiftly attacks his target dealing X damage (scales with level) + (Bonus AD ratio) and applies a stacking slow that caps at X stacks. This enhances his sticking power which is what his lunar is all about. Make it a semi low damage spell (more then a auto of course) with a low cd (3-5ish).

For solar maybe something along the lines of a disruption technique, which he lacks as a tank. Not a stun, too strong for a basic in his kit. I'm thinking a small knockback (similar to moakais Q). pushes someone back just enough to disrupt movement and cancel channels, but isn't strong enough to be relied on for displacement.


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Epsilaun

Senior Member

04-03-2013

I dont think a stacking slow (also implys capability to indefinatly refresh it) for someone with such a short CD gap closer would be right for lunar W.
before you mentioned doing something with solars ultimate, so i decided what if we did a new rendition of both

Alternatives:
Lunar (same concept, different execution) longer CD than before (unsure how much longer) skillshot, does a knock in (toward haltir) for fixed distance in front of him (long skinny) causing all enemies to be knocked his direction, animation along the lines of summoning a image of himself in lunar energy, which does the sliding dash animation original idea would do, pulling all enemies in that line, FIXED distance, not a full pull like blitz.

Seeing as his gap closer is already so short a CD, why not A make the ability require at least some skill (aiming), and B not make him move either thus not making a second gap closer.

Solar: Again, longer CD, more damage than before, but still mostly low. Haltir leaps through the air toward target ally, slaming his shield into the ground creating a wall of sunlight, this wall will deal damage and knock back any enemy that walks into it (limit once per target) And boosting Haltirs armor and MR for a short time.
decent range, say at least at max rank = range of Varus Q so he can leap to save an ally knocking the enemy away with wall.

More interesting/ult like but i feel old ones would have more balance to them, i dunno. Not really huge fan of this new Ulti idea but it does make them more impactful.

Still open to new ideas on W, i dont see stacking someone who can stick so well with more CC outside of ulti as a wise decision.


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plasmatorture

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04-15-2013

Passive: Needs to read "Every third strike causes an additional effect depending on the stance and generates an Eclipse charge." or something to make sense. Lunar doesn't need to say it applies all on hit effects unless you mean it applies them all twice?.. In which case word it better. Otherwise it's fine but essentially 16% bonus damage to all attacks, not sure if you'd consider that a little strong or not. Does Solar give an actual shield or just bonus defensive stats? It's fine thematically.

Q: Again some major formatting issues but it's a fine ability. Damage reduction for allies only is nice thematically with the selfless way Leona's passive work. I think this ability should be her E (or maybe even R) and not her Q. Is this the only ability that benefits from the passive's charges? I think if so then you should just scrap the charges, it's excess complexity for no real gameplay gain.

W: As said by others this is a pretty weak ability. I think it's fine to have the reduced cooldowns as a passive, but you can come up with a better effect. Maybe Lunar gives you a quick few attacks and Solar... maybe move the damage reduction from Q to here? Or some sort of CC since right now you have none outside of ulti.


E: Does Lunar give an extra charge of passive? It's fine. Solar just can't do true damage, sorry. Otherwise also fine but a little offensive for Solari.

R: Lunar's cool, Solar's is a cool initiator. Are his cooldowns separate between forms so he can cast the two in a row? Each one might be a little strong if that's the case but they work well enough... but on second thought these are gap closers #3 and 4 on his kit (after Q's MS and E obviously) so you may want to reconsider. Your more recent ideas for this could be fine too but I would try to avoid any excess mobility for this champ.

Character can't be manaless at all with a kit like this. You say you compare to Mundo and Zac but they at least have health costs. Overall a cool champion with a lot of flexibility and maybe not enough drawbacks for that. I think removing the charge system from the passive that only empowers the Q, swapping Q with E slot wise, and doing something more with W (perhaps like what I suggested) would do a lot for this champion.

Maybe keep iterating on ideas for the ultimate, I don't think you've quite nailed it though they could be cool. Honestly I like the idea of a wall of sunlight, just not attached to another gap closer.