How to convince allies to try unusual setups

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Slëëpy Ðrågön

Senior Member

03-19-2013

So, in ranked games, it seems that EVERYONE follows the same meta. You can tell where everyone on your enemy team is going, and what roles they will take, during even champion select, and the same 4 champions are banned in basically every match (Blitz, Amumu, Malphite, Shen). I once banned Taric, Thresh, and Lulu, then picked Sona, because she is a strong counter against Nami and Janna. My team called me a troll! If I even mention a new meta, they call me a troll! If I don't build like a meta role, they call me a troll. I once got ruby sightstone as Garen top lane, and my team wanted to report me all game. How do I convince my teammates that There is more than one way to play LoL?

P.S. The current meta is boring, especially if you're bot lane.


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iDpark

Senior Member

03-19-2013

you gotta dominate in laning. Play unorthodox builds in normals, win, then play them in ranked and tell people to look you up. (Match history op)

If that dosen't work I dunno what does.


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Z The Slayer

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Senior Member

03-19-2013

Going duo in ranked helps (and not being in the same lane), since that gives you one more option to swap out with. Unfortunately, there ARE a lot of strange builds that work exceptionally well. Vi mid, Draven with early Banshee's mid, Jarvan bot. While unorthodox can sometimes work, going the square route can, too.

Your best option is to bring attention to lane counters. Convince your allies that your lane WILL go down unless something is changed. Usually, players are willing to cooperate if their ranking is on the line.


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xSeCKSx

Senior Member

03-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slpy rgn View Post
So, in ranked games, it seems that EVERYONE follows the same meta. You can tell where everyone on your enemy team is going, and what roles they will take, during even champion select, and the same 4 champions are banned in basically every match (Blitz, Amumu, Malphite, Shen). I once banned Taric, Thresh, and Lulu, then picked Sona, because she is a strong counter against Nami and Janna. My team called me a troll! If I even mention a new meta, they call me a troll! If I don't build like a meta role, they call me a troll. I once got ruby sightstone as Garen top lane, and my team wanted to report me all game. How do I convince my teammates that There is more than one way to play LoL?

P.S. The current meta is boring, especially if you're bot lane.
Your win\loss record isn't going to convince people that your strat is sound.

Blitz, amumu, mal and shen are banned frequently as they can be quite game-changing whereas Banning supports alone is just asking to be punished hard.

I myself wouldn't report you for trolling, but unskilled which isn't bannable. It's not that you can't break the meta, it's simply that if you do so you need to prove it worthwhile.

Instead of trying to be different for the sake of being different, you really should be learning why things are done the way they are now if you truly want to find ways to do it better.


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Madraac

Senior Member

03-20-2013

You have to understand and embrace the meta if you want to ever change it successfully. Learn the inner workings and why it is considered the meta, then you look for ways to counter it. The game in its current state does not allow for you to change the meta too much, but you can change the order / process.

Example, when I jungle Jarvan, I almost always build my Black Cleaver first which causes people to question me. I do this because I found that bit of helath, plus damage and unique allows me to clear jungles quickly, as well as helping the top or bot lane seal the kill on a gank due to the unique passive. Is it right or wrong, not really, but many junglers find building up the machete first or going another utility way is the "better" option, but once you help your team win a fight or two, they calm down.

I can understand the thought process of buying a Ruby Sightstone for top Garen, but only if you are ahead and roaming. If they yelled at you, my guess would be that you were behind, and the health, while nice, is not going to be enough to get you caught back up as Garen needs to stay ahead of the pack to be effective in teamfights in regards to gold/xp, otherwise the enemy team can just leave him somewhat alone to focus on the higher danger targets.

So back to your original point, while there is a meta, the way of breaking the meta is counter picking the team. Your banning all the supports does absolutely nothing for the other lanes. Shen gets banned as he can split push like a boss, Amumu is banned because his ult can wreck a teamfight, much like Mal can initiate a teamfight and almost guarantee a win, and last because Blitz turns teamfights into 4v5's with a 15 second ability. Yet all of the above also can and do fill multiple roles whether laning, jungle or support, whereas your ban list is almost strictly support. (Yes, I understand the recent update made Taric more viable as a laner, and some players want to believe AD Thresh in a lane is viable, but in reality it is not a consistent threat or thought.) So you see why you got raged on and beat down by your team.

The secondary part of the above, is that by you doing what you stated, you also turned your whole team against you, if not each other. If everyone is raging, een if only at one person, you just failed at a team game, and have a high probability of losing the match. If you want to challenge the meta with a group of strangers, state it in the team selection and see what kind of feedback you get. If the team is open to it, then go for it, but if they shoot you down, my recommendation is to play the meta with your team.

Ok - last comment... how is bot lane boring? If it is then you are not playing it right. It is actually one of the hardest lanes. You have to know when to push, understand the ebb and flow of the lane, as well as communicate with another player. Your mistakes can cost you two deaths, not just one....


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Lord Puppy Fury

Senior Member

03-20-2013

Break the meta all you want...on a five man pre-made team. The meta exists so five strangers in solo queue can expect each other to be on the same page. Your non-meta strategy may be brilliant, but it's both ridiculous and rude to expect your teammates to learn it and know how to execute in within the 2-3 minute time span of champion select. Especially in ranked where winning is more serious, it's really not fair to your teammates to ask them to take a risk they haven't practiced an are not comfortable taking.

If you want to play an atypical champ within a meta established role (Lulu top, Vi mid, etc), it's common courtesy to ask if your teammate's are okay with it. Showing that you respect their feelings and explaining how an unorthodox pick works goes a long way towards actually getting to play what you want.


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powwder

Senior Member

03-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Puppy Fury View Post
Break the meta all you want...on a five man pre-made team. The meta exists so five strangers in solo queue can expect each other to be on the same page. Your non-meta strategy may be brilliant, but it's both ridiculous and rude to expect your teammates to learn it and know how to execute in within the 2-3 minute time span of champion select. Especially in ranked where winning is more serious, it's really not fair to your teammates to ask them to take a risk they haven't practiced an are not comfortable taking.

If you want to play an atypical champ within a meta established role (Lulu top, Vi mid, etc), it's common courtesy to ask if your teammate's are okay with it. Showing that you respect their feelings and explaining how an unorthodox pick works goes a long way towards actually getting to play what you want.
couldn't have said it better. if you want to break the meta get a group of friends and break it that way.


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Thorston13

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Ok, i read what everyone told you and i accept that.

But for example i was on a ranked match yesterday (im Silver II) and after a series of try outs i saw jungle Veigar viable against AP Heavy teams, so at some point im bound to try it in a really competitive playstyle, AKA Ranked (If you want i can open a thread about jungle Veigar so you can criticize and all that). Now, i explained why did it worked, and why we could do it, we had Garen and Zed, they build tanky and have great tank base stats, against a Zyra or Sona support, Lux mid and Akali Top, Veigar ultimates will just make a quick 5vs4.

I did asked politely "Mind if i try out something on Ranked this time, already did it a couple of times in normals"
The only real response was a "DONT DO RANKED YOU ****ING TROLL, GO DIE IN NORMALS".
You nevermind that kind of people, if you ask nicely, you have the right to expect to be answered nicely.

Now, in game i do wolves and smiteless blue, rush red and wraiths, im lvl 3: The whole chat is raging at how im trolling and not ganking, i can't gank when all three lanes are pushed all the way to the enemy tower, doesn't matter who do you pick, that's nonesense.
Around 8 mins Garen goes back and finally the lane starts pushing against us, i go top and i blast away 80% of Akali's HP, garen just spins and ignites, a minion gives me the kill and they call me "KSFEDERNOOB" (Seriously, something like that).

Our lulu support gave First blood BTW, she rushed to their blue claiming that she could steal alone and died to MF, and kept doing 1vs3 tower dives and blaiming me, the only moment i get to be bot i actually saved them from dying and scare away MIss F, yet Lulu calls me Troll and says i don't know how to play that im S**t and runs to them and feeds them another kill.

Game continues like this and lux+mundo are counterjungling me, but im still doing good, something like 3/0/1 with more CS than our ADC, yet im the troll.

Lulu kept going into dumb chases alone, Garen whenever someone took a kill, even if he just did one Auto Attack to the enemy, he would start spamming "KSER", Zed did pretty fine, Caitlyn had no idea how to ADC, yet we managed to keep her in the game.

Even so i did better and my Strategy was good, NOT UNEXPECT BECAUSE I DID SO EXPLAINED AND NO ONE CARED, im the Troll, i don't get it, i seriously doubt you can convince people to try out something new because they are afraid of what they don't understand, and they barely understand the meta, now that is more of a brusier meta as of late, they still cling to the Season 2 one.

The problem is not how you try to say the things you want to do and how, the problem is the people that don't want to try it out, and most of this people are the one role people.


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PikaRioCed

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Senior Member

03-27-2013

The meta developed because legions of players spent years figuring out what works and doesn't work. Thank them and follow them, until they develop something better.


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Vanisher15

Member

03-27-2013

The meta is the mutually accepted "correct way to play." Anything else is implied as inferior or incorrect since a standard way of play is set. It just comes with the territory.

Honestly, while what others said about courtesy and all is a nice, beautiful thought. However it has no place on video games, or the internet. It's a harsh truth but you have to be somewhat of an ******* online even if you're a nice guy.

Just break the meta and understand the consequences. Ignore people who spam KSer, and who spam troll. If you do well in games and they report you for feeding, you won't get banned. If you get reported for unskilled and do well, nothing will happen.

TL;DR: *******s are abound online, ignore them, Break the meta, win while doing so and there are no consequences. Break the meta and fail, understand the consequences


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