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Karma Ability Rework now on PBE!

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Jivira

Senior Member

03-22-2013

I am unsure of what I feel could be done to boost Support Karma while not pushing Mid Karma too high in power. Her W being usable on allies for a dual heal might be viable. Would also keep it from feeling like a fake ult (enemy only targeting).

I also feel that something should be added to the Mantra and/or passive. Right now it is very easy to loose not just a Mantra charge, but the ability cooldown you used it on. Her skills are already short range and easy to miss, even the shield occasionally gets "stolen" by a minion when it wasn't intended. Considering how little extra power a skill gains from Mantra (compared to a full ult), this seems a bit harsh. It's something that seems too much risk, not enough reward, especially considering most people consider her W to be a non-candidate for Mantra.

Now that Sakura skin has been fixed, I feel Karma is well worth owning (she was my favorite before after all) and has the potential to be an excellent, player-skill intensive, champion. Considering how she has been described as a mage-support, I hope a buff to support Karma finds its way into the works... (she already has an AA damage that feels like support Nami and ability ranges normally found on burst champions with stuns or all damage abilities, so a stronger Mantra and W would be nice...)


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Sorator

Senior Member

03-23-2013

When killed by an enemy Karma, at least as of a few days ago, the tips & hints stuff that displays in the death recap screen are still geared for the old Karma, I believe. (Her passive doesn't increase AP as she loses hp anymore, right?)


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Jivira

Senior Member

03-23-2013

A though about W: What if it stays as is, except that 1. It can be used on enemy minions. 2. It can be used on an ally to grant immunity to movement impairment for her and the ally.

Edit: The theory being, with this addition and just a few numerical tweaks: She would have strong support utility even without a normal ultimate. She would be able to provide regular key assistance during teamfights, and her sustained effect would average out to what a normal 4 skill champ would provide. Making full use of the kit would still be a challenge, especially in terms of the likelihood of wasting a Mantra charge due to miss, timing, etc. However, this would provide support or mid full usefulness in the kit and maintain the team leader dynamic.


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L33tT4rd

Senior Member

03-23-2013

New Karma is more mage-y IMO. Less of a supportive role. She can't heal her team anymore for example.

I kinda like her new mage-status but it's just not Karma anymore. It's a new champ. As someone said before "Karma's sister....but not Karma".

Please Riot, don't change her. I like her kit where it stands now 8(. Only minor tweak is her Mantra CD.


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Xx Spudtrooper1

Member

03-23-2013

I played was always a fan of karma and i own all of her skins in live, but the remade karma is awesome. Good job riot.


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Mihlo

Senior Member

03-23-2013

It would be nice to have a sound that would indicate when mantra was off cooldown, the spinning mantle is too subtle during a hectic teamfight, and with her passive it is difficult to mentally count down the cd on Mantra.


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Drpringles

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Agreed, there is absolutely little left of the old Karma in this remake. Other champion reworks (Eve, Katarina, Twitch...etc) still maintained the core identity of that character. Their roles did not drastically differ. While I welcome these changes, like the individual above me said, it's just not Karma anymore.Some feedback below:

1) Mantra CD is not forgiving
2) W is still easily broken with enemies...the leash range feels way too short and since it doesn't snare, you're forced to run into close quarters to pull off the immobolize. However, she's now a support mage and is better off going full AP...going in close as full AP is extremely dangerous for too little reward. Lux does this MUCH better...as do Zyra, Orianna, and Morganna. None of their immobolizes (save for Morgana's game changing ult) requires them to go in close. Why would anyone pick Karma over any of these other support mages...they bring so much more utility and support...
3) If there's any hope of keeping her old character, it'd be nice if W had an ally heal component attached to it. Right now she just brings absolutely nothing more to the table than any of these other picks...it's severely disappointing.

EDIT: She's not fun or rewarding to play for me right now (Lux, Zyra, Anivia...etc all have much safer combos and contribute a lot more to teamfights and supporting/disrupting than reworked Karma). I'm one of those players that sticks to one champion and plays them almost exclusively. Karma was that champion for me and this remake does NOT keep her original flair.


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ThermoFusion

Senior Member

03-23-2013

I was expecting to warm up to the new kit, but the more I play it the more it bugs me.

When I look over the list of other mages, supports, or support mages, I can't find any other that has as much trouble placing their damage and/or CC in the team fight. Most all of them have AoE damage and/or CC that targets an area and can be used from some safe positioning.

New Karma's Q can be blocked it's harder to put the damage where it's needed, or it just could miss which means no AoE and if mantra was used then I dont get the AoE slow and zone controlling secondary AoE Burst.

New Karma's Q can be blocked and the AoE is on contact only so if the enemy dodges no effect occurs at all. W is delayed CC that requires risky positioning, and using R+W for heal when I need healing most is even riskier. Her E and R+E is quite awesome, but if using it for damage, I still can't place the damage where I want it unless a teammate is there first.

I may be forgetting somebody but I'm not aware of anyone else in the Mage or Mage/Support category that has that many limits to placing damage in a team fight.

While I don't think that necessary is a bad thing, I'm not aware of what power New Karma currently brings to compensate for it. Unless the power of her R+E is expected to be just that good.

I found old Karma to be more clear in how to best use her abilities to be honest.


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Jivira

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
ThermoFusion:
I may be forgetting somebody but I'm not aware of anyone else in the Mage or Mage/Support category that has that many limits to placing damage in a team fight.

While I don't think that necessary is a bad thing, I'm not aware of what power New Karma currently brings to compensate for it.

This is a nice succinct way to state what I've been noticing. I tend to be too wordy, I know : )
Quote:
ThermoFusion:
Unless the power of her R+E is expected to be just that good.

It's not with the current numbers. Yes, if timed perfectly it could make a kill or a save, but not something that any other shield/buff in the game couldn't do just as well, if not better.


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Tiernos

Member

03-23-2013

Please, as I'm sure has probably been said already in this post, allow w to hit jungle monsters, if you can't differentiate between minions, and neutral monsters then allow it to work on both, this would give her some self sustain in lane. Kind of odd that she's designed to be a champion that can mid lane, but she has to blow her ult to be able to do more than 1 burst of dmg to minions/jungle camps. Could also help those karma players who previously enjoyed a bit of jungle karma from time to time. Could make it so you heal half off of minions/monsters to balance the sustain, but the fact that she can't even use it to damage them is kind of meh.