[GUIDE] Spell vamp Akali - The deadliest ninja

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Montegomery

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Senior Member

11-28-2010

Fact Check: I just tested Spirit Visage and it does not appear to be affecting Akali's healing through spell vamp. I stacked a Sword of the Occult and three B.F. Swords with zero AP whatsoever. I proceeded to take damage from a tower before going to the wolf camp in the jungle. Throwing my Q at a small wolf resulted in exactly 150 damage, and 91 healing. I then bought a Spirit Visage and repeated the experiment, and still healed for 91.


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Frizann

Junior Member

12-03-2010

Cardboardowl,

Do you have gtalk, msn or an e-mail?

I would like to talk with you, about some doubts and other things...

Thanks


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Fahgettaboudit

Senior Member

12-03-2010

Why do you think that westrice and other top akalis are wrong then in going

dorans
boots
sheen
mejais/hextech
boots2
rylais
lichbane
?

You put out much more burst as ap. yes, your sustained dps is worse, but the first 4 seconds of dps from a full ap lichbane akali is higher than the first 5 seconds of dps from a hybrid. Akali by the numbers proved that. Also you have a rylais. Also an akali that stays around for longer than those 5 seconds (cept when sitting in shroud) is a dead akali.

The thing is - what do you bring to a team as akali. You have no cc, you have no support skills. You just bring a very mobile chasing ganker. So work with what you have.

Don't try and be jax or tryndamere, be akali.


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CyberMonkey

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Senior Member

12-05-2010

Double gunblades is a really sweet build, tried it, it works, but I have my doubts about sheen. It really doesn't make that much of a difference how that they got rid of the reservoir system, so I'm pretty sure it isn't a viable item to take after your gunblade anymore. I must say that it is still very powerful as lich's bane after 300 AP or so tho...
For your build, spirit visage is cool and all for that MR, but since the passive is wasted, why not get a phage/giant'ss belt/catalyst instead for early hp? Should help you towards your tri-force/sunfire/banshee's later right?
Last thing, is Bloodthirster a good late game trade-off? 100 damage = 20% more spell vamp, not to mention 30% more life steal.


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Fahgettaboudit

Senior Member

12-06-2010

Sheen gives you a huge damage upgrade earlygame - it's an extra two base damage hits every time you burst anything.

Really, everyone needs to go read a whole lotta akali by the numbers.

http://leaguecraft.com/strategies/gu...Theorycraft%29


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Naesala

Senior Member

12-06-2010

P.S. Spell vamp does work with smite.
P.S. 2. Trinity scales with your base damage, not TOTAL AD, only base AD, where Lichbane actually scales with your total AP, which is the reason why most AP akali's picks it (for maximum damage).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahgettaboudit View Post
Why do you think that westrice and other top akalis are wrong then in going

dorans
boots
sheen
mejais/hextech
boots2
rylais
lichbane
?

You put out much more burst as ap. yes, your sustained dps is worse, but the first 4 seconds of dps from a full ap lichbane akali is higher than the first 5 seconds of dps from a hybrid. Akali by the numbers proved that. Also you have a rylais. Also an akali that stays around for longer than those 5 seconds (cept when sitting in shroud) is a dead akali.

The thing is - what do you bring to a team as akali. You have no cc, you have no support skills. You just bring a very mobile chasing ganker. So work with what you have.

Don't try and be jax or tryndamere, be akali.
The difference between AP akali and hybrid akali is, AP akali dies quicker, don't have especially much survivability, don't have much staying power, slightly higher burst. Hybrid akali got slightly less burst the 1st second, evens out the longer you fight, more staying power (spell vamp, life steal, enough to outnumber 500 health from 1 single item), only 1 slow (if you ignored rylai's), brings more to a team after you've managed to down your first target (your staying power keeps you alive after the kill, after all the one you just killed should had been their main damage).

With other words, she excels jax against casters, on par with tryn unless they get oracle and focus you down (no chaos (coordinated) to disturb them from focusing). True some top players builds this or that, however it is just because it works for them, elo got nothing to do with how good the build is, it only shows that they're more willing to adjust their builds, champions, playstyle according to the setup and so on.

I'll edit my comment later when I got time.


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Fahgettaboudit

Senior Member

12-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naesala View Post
P.S. Spell vamp does work with smite.
P.S. 2. Trinity scales with your base damage, not TOTAL AD, only base AD, where Lichbane actually scales with your total AP, which is the reason why most AP akali's picks it (for maximum damage).


The difference between AP akali and hybrid akali is, AP akali dies quicker, don't have especially much survivability, don't have much staying power, slightly higher burst. Hybrid akali got slightly less burst the 1st second, evens out the longer you fight, more staying power (spell vamp, life steal, enough to outnumber 500 health from 1 single item), only 1 slow (if you ignored rylai's), brings more to a team after you've managed to down your first target (your staying power keeps you alive after the kill, after all the one you just killed should had been their main damage).

With other words, she excels jax against casters, on par with tryn unless they get oracle and focus you down (no chaos (coordinated) to disturb them from focusing). True some top players builds this or that, however it is just because it works for them, elo got nothing to do with how good the build is, it only shows that they're more willing to adjust their builds, champions, playstyle according to the setup and so on.

I'll edit my comment later when I got time.
Kodama finds that:

Quote:
Against your average squishy, in the time of 2 Marks, 2 Dances, 1 Crescent, 2 Disc of Might procs and two auto attacks (that if you have sheen/lb/tf proc them).

a hybrid ad/ap/spellvamp build deals around 3850 damage, stealing 1600hp.

a full ap build deals 5300, stealing 1200.
When you say "slightly higher damage", you're talking almost 1500 damage, a quarterfold increase. "Hybrid" akali only starts to even out after like 8-10 seconds of constant auto attacking. When do you seriously get this in a fight as akali?

You burst in, drop 2 marks slash 2 autos and procs then you drop shroud (in a team fight). Then you wait for your energy to regen and attack again. In those five seconds, an ap build drastically outdamages a hybrid build, and doesn't actually vamp a WHOLE LOT LESS. If you want to survive longer as akali, take merc treads and cleanse, dont count on regenning an extra few hundred hp. I can get that this hybrid akali is easier to play, as it's less about smartcasting three things ultra quick and dropping shroud and outmoving players, then coming in again, but that doesn't make it worse. In fact, I might even try it, as my technical ability isn't all that great at all.


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Montegomery

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Senior Member

12-06-2010

Out of curiosity, what build is Kodama using for the hybrid and what build for AP? Those numbers are interesting but it's hard to judge them without the context of the items that generate them. Given how much healing is done by the AP build, I have to assume a Gunblade or an AD item is involved.


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Fahgettaboudit

Senior Member

12-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montegomery View Post
Out of curiosity, what build is Kodama using for the hybrid and what build for AP? Those numbers are interesting but it's hard to judge them without the context of the items that generate them. Given how much healing is done by the AP build, I have to assume a Gunblade or an AD item is involved.
Hybrid is Gunblade Mejais (20stack for calc) SOTA (20stack) Rageblade Trinity Force
AP is Mejais (same 20stack) Lichbane Will of the Ancients/Gunblade Rylais Zhonyas

Both take merc treads, so no advantage from sorc boots swaying it.

So even with two full 20stacks as opposed to only one 20stack, ap does a lot more dmg and hardly any less vamp.


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Cardboardowl

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Senior Member

12-09-2010

I'm glad to see such excitment over spell vamp akali!!

For that guy who wanted to talk, my msn is Cardboardowl@yahoo.com


And as for this kodama stuff...




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahgettaboudit View Post
Kodama finds that:



When you say "slightly higher damage", you're talking almost 1500 damage, a quarterfold increase. "Hybrid" akali only starts to even out after like 8-10 seconds of constant auto attacking. When do you seriously get this in a fight as akali?

You burst in, drop 2 marks slash 2 autos and procs then you drop shroud (in a team fight). Then you wait for your energy to regen and attack again. In those five seconds, an ap build drastically outdamages a hybrid build, and doesn't actually vamp a WHOLE LOT LESS. If you want to survive longer as akali, take merc treads and cleanse, dont count on regenning an extra few hundred hp. I can get that this hybrid akali is easier to play, as it's less about smartcasting three things ultra quick and dropping shroud and outmoving players, then coming in again, but that doesn't make it worse. In fact, I might even try it, as my technical ability isn't all that great at all.
Im glad to see all the excitement over a hybrid akali!!


about kodama, when where his numbers made? because im fairly the difference in vamp is much larger in my build.

Now a gunblade gives you 44% spell vamp alone, so a 20 stack SotO would only give you 22%, which is half. I don't know why you would stack it. alot of work for nothing. that money would be better used to something else.