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The Tribunal is full of punish Spammers

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RayneAU

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
WithMalice:
I guess what I would like to see, is some more information when something is up for review. I'd like to see who else was reported within the match, what the summoner doing the reporting's report rate is, and maybe even a transcript of the pre-game and post game chat box is. Many things happen off the record that would go a long way to damning or acquitting a player. Also, perhaps, seeing the reported player's report history such as (% of games reported in) would help as well. I might just be too lenient, as it seems my opinion is clearly the minority (go figure) here but that doesn't mean what I have to say doesn't hold water. I just want to hear some people's methods. (I am in Law School and the process fascinates me).
pregame and post game yes agreed
the number of people a person reported is irrelevant if he plays 5 games a day and gets trolls in 4 he will send in 4 reports nuff saild

my method is simple if they broke the code they get punished lol


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Calys Teneb

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Pre-and-post game chat isn't recorded because it's a separate client from the game client. You have the launcher, then the game, then back to the launcher. Riot's stated that they're working on the progamming to record and include what's coming from the launch client along with the game client, but integrating it hasn't been a simple process as the Tribunal was already set up to record only the game client.


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Wark

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
WithMalice:
One of my pardon's. Although yes, the player did swear a bit, for the majority of the games he was helpful, communicating and even trying to give tips. (Lux game specifically). I don't think this player is ban worthy because his team isn't playing well and he's frustrated. It happens to everyone.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribunal/en/case/6290765/#nogo

Alright, that case was a clear punish in my eyes. There's a difference between "Hey, pay attention to the map" and

Ahri [00:14:49] what part of eves a stealth champ do you not get
Ahri [00:14:58] called map awareness ****

which serves as a good representation of how this player gives "advice."

Anyway, I'm sure that you know that this isn't exactly good behavior, but you pardoned because you felt that this is normal behavior for online competitive games. But it's not. And even if it was, this isn't how Riot wants their game to be. This player constantly harps on his teammates' mistakes and insults them, and for that he got punished.


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Exploding Barrel

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
WithMalice:
I guess what I would like to see, is some more information when something is up for review. I'd like to see who else was reported within the match, what the summoner doing the reporting's report rate is, and maybe even a transcript of the pre-game and post game chat box is. Many things happen off the record that would go a long way to damning or acquitting a player. Also, perhaps, seeing the reported player's report history such as (% of games reported in) would help as well. I might just be too lenient, as it seems my opinion is clearly the minority (go figure) here but that doesn't mean what I have to say doesn't hold water. I just want to hear some people's methods. (I am in Law School and the process fascinates me).


Some of your suggestions, such as pre- and post-game chat and the player's % on games reported, are on Riot's radar as features that would be good to add. However, they say the Tribunal is at least 99.9% accurate, which they determined by reviewing every single case for over a year. At that point, the significant development resources that would take in order to add less than 0.1% accuracy is hard to justify.

Instead, they've been working on other player behavior systems, like honor and the restricted chat punishment which is going live in tonight's patch.


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WithMalice

Member

03-18-2013

I really do want to hear methods though; for me if a player uses ALL CAPS TO SCREAM "YOUR F*N RETARDED WTF IM REPORTING RARARARA." that's a no-no in my book. Also admission of prior bans is an indicator that they haven't learned and deserve punishment. But by far the worst, in my mind, is when a player says "the tribunal is a joke, nothing will happen to me." Hubris automatically gets a punishment from me, next time he won't pervade the toxicity by falsely letting people think they can get away with whatever they want. Other things I weigh heavily is the match outcome, and the # of reports across the cases. If a player is in a 5v5, and gets reported once, there is a much stronger likelihood that his behavior was viewed as acceptable by the majority within the game than if he was reported 3 or more times. If both teams are reporting, that also gives added weight to the report. I tend to look at whether the toxicity is being reciprocated as well. I won't reward someone who reports another player when they were part of the problem.


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Sword of Eris

Senior Member

03-18-2013

I don't (personally) consider the "tribunal is bla bla bla" as insta-punish, but that statement does make a punish vote more satisfying if their case shows that they did violate summoner's code.


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WithMalice

Member

03-18-2013

Maybe it is relevant for me to say that if I play 10 games, I report someone maybe once, and usually that is for a leaver or someone who is actually unskilled and needs an mmr adjustment. Maybe in 5% or less of my games do I feel someone has a bad attitude or is harassing. Although in probably at least half of the games I play does someone on one team or another request that X player gets reported for feeding, or harassment. I can't tell you how many times I myself have been threatened with reports for "intentionally feeding" when in fact I just got camped by a superior jungle, or was left to my own devices against a snowballing champion, my requests for aid being ignored.


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BillyTheAttorney

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Now now, Malice. As a law student which would be the more appropriate analogy regarding the summoner's code:

criminal statute or an expressly agreed upon term?


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WithMalice

Member

03-18-2013

Don't bring contracts into this! (even though we are technically talking about a contract). But we are also sitting in judgment on violators, not just on a contract but of the code of conduct in the game! Isn't that closer to tort/crim?


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magooomba

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
WithMalice:
I really do want to hear methods though; for me if a player uses ALL CAPS TO SCREAM "YOUR F*N RETARDED WTF IM REPORTING RARARARA." that's a no-no in my book. Also admission of prior bans is an indicator that they haven't learned and deserve punishment. But by far the worst, in my mind, is when a player says "the tribunal is a joke, nothing will happen to me." Hubris automatically gets a punishment from me, next time he won't pervade the toxicity by falsely letting people think they can get away with whatever they want. Other things I weigh heavily is the match outcome, and the # of reports across the cases. If a player is in a 5v5, and gets reported once, there is a much stronger likelihood that his behavior was viewed as acceptable by the majority within the game than if he was reported 3 or more times. If both teams are reporting, that also gives added weight to the report. I tend to look at whether the toxicity is being reciprocated as well. I won't reward someone who reports another player when they were part of the problem.

A few concerns I have with your post:

(1) You make a pretty hefty assumption that fewer reports per game means that the behavior is more acceptable. As far as I know, there have been no studies on this, and that assumption seems unfounded. In reality for the system, 1 report and 9 reports in the same game are treated with equal weight. Doing otherwise encourages calling for reports, which Riot does not want. I'm not sure your method holds up in this light. This is even more true when you ascribe more weight when the opposing team also reports. They did not have the same information you did, only what comes through in all chat and only for those players with all chat on. I don't see any reason to correlate opposing team reports with worse behavior.

(2) In terms of toxicity being "reciprocated", I'm curious just how you view punishing a player for his behavior as somehow rewarding another. If that player exhibited punishable behavior, he should be punished. As should the player who "reciprocated". Under your suggestion, however, neither player should be punished as this somehow rewards the other. Thus, both players are not punished and continue this negative behavior. That seems far from the intent of reporting.