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Zac: Problems and solutions

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Crowcide

Senior Member

03-21-2013

I'll update the list when I get home, but saying don't build health on a tank is silly.


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Crowcide

Senior Member

03-21-2013

updated!


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RichardMcNixon

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Quote:
Crowcide:
I'll update the list when I get home, but saying don't build health on a tank is silly.

Not don't build health at all - just don't prioritize it

His abilities are % based, so the more health you have the more they cost. You can have lower health and they're gonna take the same chunk. Also, he regens % so as long as you can take the beating that you're being given it'll all come back anyway.

You can instead build an Aegis, Spirit Visage, things of that nature... I was able to be beat on by 4 opponents (w/o being fed - it was aram and others were picking up the kills ) and still E my way out with 1/3+ health - this is more than i can say for the most hearty of tanks, and that's without the super health stacking.

Basically i'm looking at a max of 2k health - not this 3-4k insanity. I never remember the name of the guy but he's the one that suggested this and it works - he said think of his health like his mana - you want to regen that mana so you get regen items. that gives you sustain.

It works! wouldn't put it out there if it didn't I plan on playing him a whole lot more this weekend and i'll be trying out other things, but for now this has been the best way i've found to build him


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Eyrgos

Senior Member

03-21-2013

These are all false issues. People need to play Zac more and figure out why he's perfect as is despite very minor tweaks perhaps (extremely).


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Eyrgos

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Quote:
RichardMcNixon:
Not don't build health at all - just don't prioritize it

His abilities are % based, so the more health you have the more they cost. You can have lower health and they're gonna take the same chunk. Also, he regens % so as long as you can take the beating that you're being given it'll all come back anyway.

You can instead build an Aegis, Spirit Visage, things of that nature... I was able to be beat on by 4 opponents (w/o being fed - it was aram and others were picking up the kills ) and still E my way out with 1/3+ health - this is more than i can say for the most hearty of tanks, and that's without the super health stacking.

Basically i'm looking at a max of 2k health - not this 3-4k insanity. I never remember the name of the guy but he's the one that suggested this and it works - he said think of his health like his mana - you want to regen that mana so you get regen items. that gives you sustain.

It works! wouldn't put it out there if it didn't I plan on playing him a whole lot more this weekend and i'll be trying out other things, but for now this has been the best way i've found to build him


A solid mix of health and resistances is the right path, because even though his abilities cost %current health, you get a higher return for glob pickup at anywhere <100% health, as his passive is %max health return.

So it's a fallacy to think uber-health is more harming than good and less useful... it's more situational for sure. But I feel like the best route is a good mixture of everything, with a Spirit Visage and Spell Vamp.

Also, he's amazing as a hybrid ad-ap life-stealing tank...

Try him sometime with Ravenous Hydra and either Hextech Gunblade/WoTA/or SoTSW


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Crowcide

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Quote:
RichardMcNixon:
Not don't build health at all - just don't prioritize it

His abilities are % based, so the more health you have the more they cost. You can have lower health and they're gonna take the same chunk. Also, he regens % so as long as you can take the beating that you're being given it'll all come back anyway.

You can instead build an Aegis, Spirit Visage, things of that nature... I was able to be beat on by 4 opponents (w/o being fed - it was aram and others were picking up the kills ) and still E my way out with 1/3+ health - this is more than i can say for the most hearty of tanks, and that's without the super health stacking.

Basically i'm looking at a max of 2k health - not this 3-4k insanity. I never remember the name of the guy but he's the one that suggested this and it works - he said think of his health like his mana - you want to regen that mana so you get regen items. that gives you sustain.

It works! wouldn't put it out there if it didn't I plan on playing him a whole lot more this weekend and i'll be trying out other things, but for now this has been the best way i've found to build him

Mathematically the % health hurts him the same if you prioritize armor or health. Since it's % health based true damage it makes no difference what tank stat you build in terms of effective health.


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Moohga

Member

03-21-2013

The worst about the % based health,is that you NEED to build health in the actual meta to tank.
Once you've reached a treshold on armor and MR,you build health because it's the more efficient in gold/item efficiency.
That's why zac will never be viable as a tank as long as he'll have all his abilities % health based,not even mentioning the true lack of CC.
And he's not viable in any other role except jungler,but will be limited to this and that's sad for a character to only have one role.


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Crowcide

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Quote:
Moohga:
The worst about the % based health,is that you NEED to build health in the actual meta to tank.
Once you've reached a treshold on armor and MR,you build health because it's the more efficient in gold/item efficiency.
That's why zac will never be viable as a tank as long as he'll have all his abilities % health based,not even mentioning the true lack of CC.
And he's not viable in any other role except jungler,but will be limited to this and that's sad for a character to only have one role.

Like I said % health true damage is equally a hit to armor, magic resistance, health, or any other tank stat.

One of zac's problems is he has 0 defensive steroids and is playing with a 12%-20% health pool reduction. This makes him one of or the least tanky champs in the game.


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RichardMcNixon

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Quote:
Eyrgos:
A solid mix of health and resistances is the right path, because even though his abilities cost %current health, you get a higher return for glob pickup at anywhere <100% health, as his passive is %max health return.

So it's a fallacy to think uber-health is more harming than good and less useful... it's more situational for sure. But I feel like the best route is a good mixture of everything, with a Spirit Visage and Spell Vamp.

Also, he's amazing as a hybrid ad-ap life-stealing tank...

Try him sometime with Ravenous Hydra and either Hextech Gunblade/WoTA/or SoTSW


Yep i fully intend on trying the spell vamp route - not sure about Hydra... He's an AP champ. Not sure why people keep trying the AD route(?) I get the life steal, but as is proven with almost every other hybrid-able type champ it's better to just stack one or the other. I may just try it though. i do have a soft spot for hybrid builds.

Right now i've been building him bruiser-y

Just got booted from the server but was running a really successful jungle Zac - vs another jungle zac actually. Anyhow was building Ancient Golem / Spirit Visage / Will of the Ancients (or) aegis depending on how the game is going

*in the end, the true key to ZAC is an effective use of his abilities. I took out anivia who was 2 lvls above me by bum rushing her on her side of mid with E R and W.... never had so much success as a jungler lol and my mid wasn't even there.

Quote:
Crowcide:
Mathematically the % health hurts him the same if you prioritize armor or health. Since it's % health based true damage it makes no difference what tank stat you build in terms of effective health.


Absolutely - but theoretically. When you have a bunch of health you're going to end up losing larger chunks (i think his costs are gonna go up in not too long IMO) so using abilities in a 3v1 or worse is gonna put you in a bad position if you can't get to your globs. That's where the spell vamp comes in though. Good theory crafting everyone I'm super excited to buy / play ZAC on live when he comes out... feel like i'm gonna finally start some forward momentum in ranked lol (elo hell is elo hell)


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Crowcide

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Quote:
RichardMcNixon:
.
Absolutely - but theoretically. When you have a bunch of health you're going to end up losing larger chunks (i think his costs are gonna go up in not too long IMO) so using abilities in a 3v1 or worse is gonna put you in a bad position if you can't get to your globs. That's where the spell vamp comes in though. Good theory crafting everyone I'm super excited to buy / play ZAC on live when he comes out... feel like i'm gonna finally start some forward momentum in ranked lol (elo hell is elo hell)

No, you don't understand, since its % based true damage and his globs heal % there is no difference in terms of health efficiency if you stack health or armor. Using a spell, picking up a glob is exactly the same good or bad regardless of what tank stats you get. There is no way to mitigate health cost as zac except to not build any tank stats, which makes it really hard to be a tank.