Jayce and Viktor

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Melancholy Exile

Senior Member

03-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Qinn View Post
I am not suggesting that this must be true.
I am suggesting the possibility.

I'm not some fanboy who ships ridiculous pairings or implausible theories, I try to support what I propose with all the evidence or speculations I have in my arsenal.
And the "evidence" that you've shown us can be summed up thusly:
  • Viktor's lore doesn't explicitly state he was born in Zaun
  • Viktor and Jayce both have interest in technology
  • Viktor and Jayce may have similar physiques (Or so you think)

This is a possibility in much the same way that the suggestion that Riven and Sejuani are long-lost sisters is a possibility. I'm not trying to say that you two can't take this approach in your own sphere, because you certainly can, but I'm not quite sure what you hoped to achieve by raising it over here. It isn't an idea that lends itself to reading against the established lore because your own theories do nothing to change the way we interpret their characters. Viktor and Jayce are exactly the same, with their lives having been completely unaltered by your idea before the reveal, and you're just dropping a huge plot twist on them that could be potentially added to almost any rivalry with a similar set-up.

Even if Viktor was a native Zaunite, you could still say that he was the older brother of the two and that their parents give him away, not wanting a child, then later moved to Piltover and changed their mind about having kids. I don't think that would be any less plausible than the suggestion that you're making here as it doesn't do anything to contradict their lore either.

Syndra's lore doesn't explicitly state that she's Ionian, it merely speaks of her "youth in Ionia" and refrains from even making a direct mention of her parents. I could take the same approach you two have and suggest that she's actually the child of a pirate from Bilgewater and was saved from the remains of a ship wrecked in Ionian waters. There's no solid evidence for this connection, there's merely a lack of explicit contradictory evidence. If you're going to take that approach then you can suggest just about anything, and have it still work, just so long as you give some sort of explanation for how it could be possible.

Shipping "ridiculous pairings" can be made to work on the merits of the actual character work of the author and how the relationship is presented. How is that really any different from you two deciding that these two characters may well be related, adding details to their backgrounds to make your ideas fit and presumably altering their relationship in future meetings to account for the changes in their circumstances?


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ALC Phoenix

Senior Member

03-17-2013

I'm asking for feedback and thoughts ;-;
Thanks for the criticism, anyway.


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ALC Phoenix

Senior Member

03-17-2013

Okay, I feel like I may not have given enough information on why I posted this here

Currently, me and Script have been RPing actively on a forum known as Maelstrom. I'm Jayce, he's Viktor. Now, things have been really boring around interactions with Jayce and Vik, and we wanted to spice things up with a plot twist. We're asking for feedback on how to develop our ideas, How to make this work, not trying to integrate this into people's mind that "omg Jayce x Viktor 5eva".

Now most of you may not like RPing, but we find it fun in a sense, and a plot twist like this would certainly make things interesting . The main citystates are out having fun, why can't we?


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Melancholy Exile

Senior Member

03-17-2013

I'm not opposed to roleplaying. Hell, I even thought about applying for the role of Kayle on Maelstrom a little while back and set about establishing a brief history of Kayle and Morgana's homeworld, and the conflict that split them apart, just so I could actually draw upon that when roleplaying. Unfortunately I was a little too late to secure the part and there really weren't any characters left over who interested me.

My problem with the approach you two have chosen to take is that it doesn't actually have any direct impact on the characters prior to the present day. If Viktor and Jayce never knew they had a long-lost sibling, and lived their lives entirely apart, then it makes very little difference how you decide to integrate this with their lives because none of the details will have any bearing on who they are now; it does nothing to inform their characters.

My follow-up question to what you've told me is a simple one: Why would Viktor care?

Viktor has already offered Jayce the opportunity to work with him on bringing the Glorious Evolution to fruition and had his 'generous' offer denied. He isn't the sort who would compromise on his own designs, and did what he saw as necessary to continue his work, even though that meant acting violently towards the Piltovan. Jayce further interfering with his plans will hardly have enamoured him to the man either.

Viktor is committed to bringing forth the Glorious Evolution and moving mankind forward into a bright new dawn, so he's hardly going to have second-thoughts because his nemesis is actually his sibling. He's lived his whole life in the Zaunite system and now seeks a future that is 'better' for everyone. What is family but an unnecessary distraction from his goals?

I imagine that Viktor would only further come to resent Jayce if her was forced to pay closer attention to the man. Jayce is, in a sense, everything Viktor wanted to be - a recognised and celebrated man of science, beloved by his people for his work and deeds beyond. He stood in the way of the Glorious Evolution; he sabotaged Viktor's work and yet people still loved him for it and branded him the hero. Why would a man removed from "emotional weakness" want to open up connections with the "Defender of Tomorrow" even if he learned they were related?


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Script Lord

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melancholy Exile View Post
My follow-up question to what you've told me is a simple one: Why would Viktor care?

Viktor has already offered Jayce the opportunity to work with him on bringing the Glorious Evolution to fruition and had his 'generous' offer denied. He isn't the sort who would compromise on his own designs, and did what he saw as necessary to continue his work, even though that meant acting violently towards the Piltovan. Jayce further interfering with his plans will hardly have enamoured him to the man either.

Viktor is committed to bringing forth the Glorious Evolution and moving mankind forward into a bright new dawn, so he's hardly going to have second-thoughts because his nemesis is actually his sibling. He's lived his whole life in the Zaunite system and now seeks a future that is 'better' for everyone. What is family but an unnecessary distraction from his goals?

I imagine that Viktor would only further come to resent Jayce if her was forced to pay closer attention to the man. Jayce is, in a sense, everything Viktor wanted to be - a recognised and celebrated man of science, beloved by his people for his work and deeds beyond. He stood in the way of the Glorious Evolution; he sabotaged Viktor's work and yet people still loved him for it and branded him the hero. Why would a man removed from "emotional weakness" want to open up connections with the "Defender of Tomorrow" even if he learned they were related?
Firstly, I'd like to point out that I honestly don't care for your opinion of our plot twist, nor would I have ever asked you for any input on the matter. Secondly, I'd like to simply state that all you've pointed out thus far is mere conjecture and based upon your own personal bias (I know you have ties to Riven elsewhere, having read your posts in the RP forum to that acting Riven RPer). But, I will digress and throw myself on the grill to address your issues.

Viktor offered Jayce the opportunity to work with him towards the Glorious Evolution, one which was already rejected and led to the two's falling out. Now, you state that Viktor wouldn't compromise on his designs, and you'd be right but you seem to ignoring some key things that I've pointed out. This I will argue in my next paragraph, but I will conclude by pointing out that Viktor approached Jayce as a stranger - as someone who had endured the hardships of Zaun's harsh environment to become something all his own. He approached Jayce under the impression that they were merely "Zaunite" and "Piltovian".

Now, there are many factors to my portrayal of Viktor, the most important being that Viktor was raised in an orphanage for a great deal of his life, thus he never knew his parents/family. Now, Viktor's been alone and never had anyone he could truly call "family", so he's grown up under the impression that he's his own person and he must succeed of his own accord. He never had the need for familial ties and so devoted himself to his interests, which drove him onward without any deviation. But ultimately, deep down, everyone cares about their family, even if they can't stand them/get along with them. Flesh and blood is a bond you can never destroy, so who are you to turn away such a powerful motivator for character relationships?

Now, on to the next factor. Viktor's been heavily jaded by Zaun and its people, having had to deal with difficult environmental hazards and when he was to become a scion of his people it was snatched from him by a man he had trusted. Jayce may be everything Viktor once wanted to be, but Viktor isn't the sort of person to dwell on the past. He's the sort of person that can adapt to any given situation, to deal with it accordingly and continue down his path. In my portrayal of Viktor, he's even gone so far as to give up on humanity and seek only to lead people to becoming one with technology. He doesn't care about anyone or anything, save for his goal and its realization. And besides, everyone, without exception, is susceptible to reacting to sudden and shocking news. Even someone who's as far removed from his emotions as Viktor would have to seriously consider the weight of what he strives for if he found out who his true family was. To this end, I've merely sought to entertain the notion that Jayce and Viktor are secretly blood related. It would provide a significant moral and philosophical dilemma to both characters.

Tell me, how would you feel if you found out that the person you had sworn to defeat/eliminate was actually your blood relation? And even more than that, that this person shared your passion (in this case, invention)? It would certainly test the very fiber of your being, would it not? It would pit your ideals and your motivations against your very soul, would it not? Viktor hasn't lost his soul, as far as anyone is aware, and has simply been hardened by his experiences from growing up in Zaun. As far as my portrayal goes, he's still every bit the tragic figure that his lore attempts to paint him as.


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Cerubois

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Script Lord View Post
he's even gone so far as to give up on humanity and seek only to lead people to becoming one with technology. He doesn't care about anyone or anything, save for his goal and its realization. And besides, everyone, without exception, is susceptible to reacting to sudden and shocking news. Even someone who's as far removed from his emotions as Viktor would have to seriously consider the weight of what he strives for if he found out who his true family was.
You're kind of contradicting yourself. He doesn't care about anything irrelevant, but he must care about something irrelevant, simply because.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Script Lord View Post
Tell me, how would you feel if you found out that the person you had sworn to defeat/eliminate was actually your blood relation? And even more than that, that this person shared your passion (in this case, invention)?
Not everyone puts a lot of value in family ties. Now, imagining I'm some more-robot-than-human being with a goal of pseudo-taking-over-the-world, I wouldn't even bother answering. I'd just continue on with my goals.

This isn't something comparable to Darth Vader vs. Luke. Vader still cared, deep down, about his family. He regretted his actions. He had no real goal in life. Luke managed to break through because of that.
As far as we know, Viktor has no regrets or attachments. Can he even feel those anymore? He is the embodiment of his own definition of 'progress'. I don't think it would be impossible to get through to him somehow, but family ties are probably, in my opinion, meaningless.


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ALC Phoenix

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Note that in Viktor's lore, it says that "there is some lingering residue of resentment towards the Professor." Perhaps Viktor has not fully become an emotionless robotic person.

We're going to try to discuss it with Mael RP's admin, someone who can relate. Besides, if her decision is final, then that's it, this plot is over.

I really wanted some kind of interesting interaction ;-; Demacia is being invaded by the Shadow Isles, Noxus is boiling up... but nothing seems to happen in Piltover and Zaun! boring as hell.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

I'm just gonna shut up now.
Lore forum's criticism is a bit harsh :L


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StarkRavenMad

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Except the possibility isn't even there...Viktor is in his 40's, maybe Fifties, where as Jayce is mid twenties, at his oldest. There are no slight hints that they are brothers, nor that they've ever met, beyond their first encounter, which lead to the rivalry.


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ALC Phoenix

Senior Member

03-20-2013

Quote from Maelstrom's favorite demon-bird admin:

Quote:
I don't think it's a very feasible idea, but with some development you could figure out an alternative.
And so that's it. We're ditching this idea.
Well played, Lore Forums.


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Cerubois

Senior Member

03-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Qinn View Post
Well played, Lore Forums.
... Is this our fault? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.


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