The surrender option should be made available earlier

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an actual dog

Senior Member

03-16-2013

It's a faster game mode than SR so it's only logical to allow ending the game earlier

ARAM is largely played as a just-for-fun mode, why should the players have to continue playing for at least 20 minutes if it's one of those games where they're doing nothing but trying to dodge skillshots and the fun clearly isn't happening for most of them?


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Chzrm3

Senior Member

03-16-2013

There's enough dodging with ARAM as is, I really don't like the idea of people being able to surrender earlier on top of that.

I've only played as Nid once in an ARAM match, even though she's one of my favorite champs. It's because every other time I get her, someone on the other team auto-dodges.

The last thing this mode needs is more people running away from matches. : /


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FDru

Senior Member

03-16-2013

I see a surrender maybe 1 out of 100 matches, and that's not because matches don't last 20 minutes.

This kind of thing is just completely unnecessary because surrenders are basically nonexistent in the first place.


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an actual dog

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chzrm3 View Post
There's enough dodging with ARAM as is, I really don't like the idea of people being able to surrender earlier on top of that.

I've only played as Nid once in an ARAM match, even though she's one of my favorite champs. It's because every other time I get her, someone on the other team auto-dodges.

The last thing this mode needs is more people running away from matches. : /
Which is why they're changing it to a normal queue with dodge penalties

A surrender is very different from a dodge, in that it requires 80% of the team's approval, as opposed to 20%

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDru
I see a surrender maybe 1 out of 100 matches, and that's not because matches don't last 20 minutes.

This kind of thing is just completely unnecessary because surrenders are basically nonexistent in the first place.
That's because when one team is stomping the other, the game is usually close enough to over at 20 that they figure they might as well just ride it out to the end

If surrendering was only available at like 35 minutes in SR you'd probably see something similar


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FDru

Senior Member

03-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Callahan View Post
That's because when one team is stomping the other, the game is usually close enough to over at 20 that they figure they might as well just ride it out to the end

If surrendering was only available at like 35 minutes in SR you'd probably see something similar
And in SR, surrenders happen far more often than they should. Even if it's easier to turtle and draw out a loss, players give up far too easily because nothing has actually happened by the time the surrender timer is up.

Players are more likely to stick around in a game they have more invested in, but that is an argument for keeping the surrender timer longer more than anything.

If a game lasts that long, obviously it wasn't a hopeless match.


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ToothDcay

Junior Member

03-17-2013

I quite like the idea.

Let me tell you from my perspective. When I get in a team which is clearly superior and were you can not possibly lose, if you play it right, I start making crazy stunts and funny builds. Things like "aim for the teemo only" or some tower dives, which might fail and potentially give them some money to make things more interesting. Some others just arent that fair. Ure zoned by them way behind your own tower, which gets chunked with every minion wave but they keep playing their OPness with no remorse. The only interaction between the team in the first 10 minutes is them poking and you dodging skillshots. And if myself or someone of my team points out that the game is quite onesided (comments like "tryhards", "do you have at least fun?", "just poke no plays" .. etc) they just tell you how noob you are and that u should grow up and cry less.
In a game mode were its not important who wins or loses, the surrender vote implies something like this " Hey guys, u know what f u. You can bully someone else thanks. "


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CowMeat

Senior Member

03-17-2013

10 minute surrender would be nice.


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LrdVprScrpn

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDru View Post
And in SR, surrenders happen far more often than they should. Even if it's easier to turtle and draw out a loss, players give up far too easily because nothing has actually happened by the time the surrender timer is up.

Players are more likely to stick around in a game they have more invested in, but that is an argument for keeping the surrender timer longer more than anything.

If a game lasts that long, obviously it wasn't a hopeless match.

It's an opportunity cost thing.

Is it possible to slug it out for 15-20 more minutes and win? Yes
Do I want to invest this amount of time on such an uncertain outcome? Depends

That's the whole point of surrender. If you only surrendered when you were 100% certain of a loss, you're only saving about 1-2 minutes of time in most cases.

The option is there for those cases where you're pretty darn certain that the effort and time required to salvage the game is not worth it.


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Zielmann

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Callahan View Post
It's a faster game mode than SR so it's only logical to allow ending the game earlier

ARAM is largely played as a just-for-fun mode, why should the players have to continue playing for at least 20 minutes if it's one of those games where they're doing nothing but trying to dodge skillshots and the fun clearly isn't happening for most of them?
This was discussed a while back, shortly after this board popped up I believe.

Based on everything that was discussed in that thread, I kinda came to a conclusion that I'd almost rather see the surrender vote disabled entirely for the game mode.

Why? Because a lot of the teams that struggle early actually have reasonably strong late-games. If the team is able to just hold on long enough, they actually end up with a decent shot at winning. Letting these teams give up at 10 or 15 minutes wouldn't let them reach that tipping point where things turn in their favor.

Case in point:
I played a game just this last week that is pretty much the epitome of a late-game comeback. My team was WW, Jayce, J4 (me), Xin, and Swain. Opponents were Annie, Nasus, Blitz, Ashe, Heimer.

At 13:30, my team was down 18-33 in kills, and 7k gold. We were just aced. The other team took down our nexus turrets when we had yet to touch their first tower. We all spawned and just dove on them in desperation. Nexus dropped to below 1700 HP, but we were able to chase them off. They all respawn and charge the nexus, where it gets taken below 800 HP, but we're getting more and more tanky, and we're able to chase them off again.

Another 13 minutes go by with us just slowly working our way back into the game. We ended up winning after almost 27 minutes, and we brought the kills back up to 60-68 by the end of it, and actually ended up beating the other team in gold by about 100. That kind of comeback is just super rewarding to pull off.

But it's quite likely that my 4 teammates would have been willing to surrender at the 10 or 15 minute mark, because it definitely didn't look like we had a chance at those points in the game. (I would have probably voted against a surrender just on principle).

Also from personal experience, I definitely don't see many surrender votes come out at all in ARAMs. I can only recall it happening once or twice in the last couple of months. And it's always a bit of a surprise when it happens because I never expect to see it.


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JuSt To Raw

Junior Member

04-03-2013

15 mins for first surrender would be fine.


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