Zac was done right!

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Horuspinker

Senior Member

03-15-2013

dislike the lore.

A Zaun experiment needs to in line with their ethics... as in they have none.

I expect a man angry indestructible blob of death who needs to be in the league because the summoners are the only people able to control him.


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IcySlayer

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horuspinker View Post
dislike the lore.

A Zaun experiment needs to in line with their ethics... as in they have none.

I expect a man angry indestructible blob of death who needs to be in the league because the summoners are the only people able to control him.
You have a game where one of the most selfless characters are all the odd balls(trundle for example hes so nice even though hes a troll).
Also one thing the lore contradicts what you said.It says they raised him and taught him right from wrong in his lore so he would have human ethics.

Also SO MANY other games and movies ext have that its refreshing to see one that WON'T want to kill you for once.


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KiteMeGood

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Well Zaun's creations have a case of being turned against them. This is not going to sit well with Noxus who see all of these "golems" run free and denounce their lack of ethics.


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DrTemptragon

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Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horuspinker View Post
dislike the lore.

A Zaun experiment needs to in line with their ethics... as in they have none.

I expect a man angry indestructible blob of death who needs to be in the league because the summoners are the only people able to control him.
Don't be obtuse. Zaun has no ethics? Then why were they the first city-state to recognise Blitzcrank as a sentient being?

Just because their ethics don't match yours is not the same as them not having any. So what if they value science, intelligence and progress over safety and the environment? They still value something.


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GusterMcGusgus

Senior Member

03-16-2013

I am sorry, but i don't see his motivation to join the league. yeah, he wants to do good, but i believe they should explain why he wants to join the league as it is done with every champ's lore.


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Xulsigae

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Seems an odd way to influence the government of Zaun though. Why not go straight to them and smack them around a bit? A big strong bioweapon with a moral core couldn't have that much trouble against whatever the ruling heads of Zaun are. Unless it's other champs like Viktor and such.
Dr. Mundo doesn't seem to be open to much discussion from what I get from him. Janna has renounced Zaun last I knew.

My basic question I suppose is similar to the one I've been asking lately about champions- How does joining the League serve their purpose(s) or goals? I don't mind giving some wriggle room and allowing for some speculation, but having only the flimsiest 'scaffolding' for reasons is silly (to me). The reason of 'It gives them influence' seems a bit worn, as I don't see a reason for the League to actually have to give back anything to the champs it has under it. While this is deliciously dark, it makes me wonder why champs still keep showing up to "indenture" themselves in return for dubious returns at best. Preserving the status quo in the name of preventing more rune wars is kinda sketchy to me.
Perhaps that's just a result of the lack of lore progression lately. I like the ways that Quinn and Zac were presented via journals and such, but the lore doesn't feel as alive and vibrant as it once did. Just my opinion of course.

And his looks and lore don't really seem to mesh well thematically. I enjoy many themes in lore- cute, grimdark, whimsical, macho, stealthy, tragic etc., but Zac's does a hairpin turn and feels...forced to me. The change from 'Experiment run amok' to 'It's okay, he was rescued and taught kindness by nice people' is too jarring to me. Feels like it was written by different people who didn't talk to each other to find out how to blend the 'Oh no! It's loose!' element with the 'He just wants love' element. Or was being designed to be akin to a horror movie and part way through was decided to make it cute and heroic. Only one view of many though.


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OriginalA

Senior Member

03-16-2013

"How does joining the League serve their purpose(s) or goals?"
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Yes, how does gaining massive political power, financial backing, and mass public exposure help anybody's cause?
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When's the last time you've heard a celebrity's opinion on something important?
When's the last time you've heard random person's opinion on something important?
Who's opinion swayed masses of people?
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Also, the League doesn't actually give this to the Champions (aside from tons of money; they do do that). The political power and public appeal is given to them by the people by simply being Champions. They are celebrities. Plain and simple. People listen to them.
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Why would you have him join the League given the direction Riot took his character?
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EDIT: Interesting tid bit: Miss Fortune's lore has her join the League in order to gain influence as a Champion in order to allow herself to put political pressure on Bilgewater in order to support her own political agenda and reform Bilgewater. ... Basically, exactly what I'm saying.


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Xulsigae

Senior Member

03-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalA View Post
"How does joining the League serve their purpose(s) or goals?"
-
Yes, how does gaining massive political power, financial backing, and mass public exposure help anybody's cause?
-
When's the last time you've heard a celebrity's opinion on something important?
When's the last time you've heard random person's opinion on something important?
Who's opinion swayed masses of people?
-
Also, the League doesn't actually give this to the Champions (aside from tons of money; they do do that). The political power and public appeal is given to them by the people by simply being Champions. They are celebrities. Plain and simple. People listen to them.
-
Why would you have him join the League given the direction Riot took his character?
-
EDIT: Interesting tid bit: Miss Fortune's lore has her join the League in order to gain influence as a Champion in order to allow herself to put political pressure on Bilgewater in order to support her own political agenda and reform Bilgewater. ... Basically, exactly what I'm saying.
Which source says they get financial backing from the League? Must have missed that. Not quite sure how or when the champions have a soapbox to speak to everyone. Not during games I assume. And I'm not quite sure what would change how the leadership of Zaun views those it rules. Zac just doesn't seem as effective at protecting the poor of Zaun in the League as he would be if he was in Zaun. Short of inspiring a revolution in Zaun, I'm at a loss for how Zac could assist by fighting in the League. His personality doesn't suggest to me a deal maker or influential being beyond his strength.


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OriginalA

Senior Member

03-17-2013

"Sivir has little interest in the cribbage sheets - as she calls them - of League influence bartering. Instead, she is motivated by material wealth and riches, and she is paid handsomely for her services."
-Sivir bio

" Initially unwilling to cater to his celebrity status as a champion, Alistar has since discovered that there is power in fame, and he has become a vocal advocate for those whom the Noxian government treads upon. He also calls to light things that the Noxian military would prefer remain hidden -- something that has made him very unpopular with Noxus's nobles. His charitable work has earned him several philanthropic awards, which serve as an interesting contrast to the rage and destruction he brings to the League of Legends. "
-Alistar bio

Yeah, they are active outside of the Field of Justice.

I'm not entirely sure what Zac's end goal is either. But having money and a public image is always going to help anybody is hopes to be proactive in a large goal that is going to have a lasting effect on a population. Besides, if he wasn't a Champion then Zaun scientists could just PR smear him and label him as a runaway experiment that goes on killer rampages and he would not have an effective way of communicating to the people he intends to protect that those are lies, so it could just be simple maintenance of his self image.


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Xulsigae

Senior Member

03-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalA View Post
"Sivir has little interest in the cribbage sheets - as she calls them - of League influence bartering. Instead, she is motivated by material wealth and riches, and she is paid handsomely for her services."
-Sivir bio

" Initially unwilling to cater to his celebrity status as a champion, Alistar has since discovered that there is power in fame, and he has become a vocal advocate for those whom the Noxian government treads upon. He also calls to light things that the Noxian military would prefer remain hidden -- something that has made him very unpopular with Noxus's nobles. His charitable work has earned him several philanthropic awards, which serve as an interesting contrast to the rage and destruction he brings to the League of Legends. "
-Alistar bio

Yeah, they are active outside of the Field of Justice.

I'm not entirely sure what Zac's end goal is either. But having money and a public image is always going to help anybody is hopes to be proactive in a large goal that is going to have a lasting effect on a population. Besides, if he wasn't a Champion then Zaun scientists could just PR smear him and label him as a runaway experiment that goes on killer rampages and he would not have an effective way of communicating to the people he intends to protect that those are lies, so it could just be simple maintenance of his self image.
Does everyone get paid, or just her?
Alistar doesn't seem to have a place to be though, not in the same way as Zac. Zac has Zaun to protect people; where does Alistar have?
They could PR smear him now if they wanted to. He doesn't strike me as someone who relies much on his self image.


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