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PBE: Gaming or Testing Environment?

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sKrewBaLLzZz

Member

03-15-2013

Now I see this all the time, someone has a frustrating game then comes on the forums to express how they feel, maybe even add some agitated suggestions. It usually goes like this, "OMG this, that, and this happened, you should do that, this and that."

If it's unrelated to glitches and the such, this person is usually down voted to oblivion and has comments along the lines of "PBE is a beta environment ONLY for the testing of bugs." Some times not so kindly.

I'm aware of why the PBE exists, however there are some reasons why statements like this make me a lil' angry. Think about it this way, each PBE account is like a person Riot could be paying to test and find bugs (which I'm sure they still have). So getting the weekly stipends are their way of "paying" us. If that's my reason for testing what's the big problem?

You also see this one a lot, "Having fun is secondary to testing". I'm sorry if there a majority of you that agree with this, but to me they should be equal in priority. If your in a game where someone fed a ridiculous amount, or there are AFKs making it uneven on your team and you can't do anything without being graped, how are you supposed to find the incentive to play another game let alone test a bug?

Lastly, let's say I want to play a champ that I may not own on the live server, or there's a new skin that hasn't been released quite yet and I want to play with it, what's the big fuss?

I have played over 300 games on the PBE, and not once has anyone said "Ok, Let's see what bugs there are on "X" skin or "X" champion". Not even anything close to that. Most Bugs are found through casual play, the perfect timing of abilities and code that create a problem. So even if there are groups of people dedicated to joining matches with each other for the sole purpose of finding bugs, unless they are just playing the game, less will be done than those who solely play for the fun of the game and accidentally fall upon an issue. Just sayin'.

I can take a loss. I can take a DC/AFK. I can even tolerate a troll from time to time, but it really bugs me (no pun intended) when there's such a strong opinion, it seems, about whether or not you're supposed to have "fun" when testing.


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namora

Senior Member

03-15-2013

The answer to your question is both. Riot has stated this somewhere but I can't be bothered to go find it. Play a game, report any bugs, congradulations, you are a PBE tester. That's the only true goal. There's some side goals as well, by they typically fall under the category of "mature respectable behavior" and "feedback."

~Summoner namora, of the lower case.


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Bidorr the Great

Senior Member

03-15-2013

I'll admit, I have a bad habit of succumbing to the "use PBE for testing or GTFO" attitude, mostly because of how frustrating it is when I get paired up with players who get upset when people don't adhere to the meta, or use weird builds that don't end up working, and act otherwise like PBE is just an easier form of the live servers.

While the "testing only" mentality is TECHNICALLY correct, at the same time, that attitude is severely limited in the amount of data it collects for Riot. The reason Riot even opened PBE to the public in the first place is because, originally, PBE was only a select group of players by invite only, but it took hours just to get one game going since there were so few people. Now, even if there's players not doing testing, there's at least games going on to let the more serious testers get something done without having to rely on custom/bot games.


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KamaitachiTrey

Huntsman

03-15-2013

I'll check this out point by point. Prepare for an enormous, massive, gigantic wall of text.

Quote:
OSMsKrewBaLL:
Now I see this all the time, someone has a frustrating game then comes on the forums to express how they feel, maybe even add some agitated suggestions. It usually goes like this, "OMG this, that, and this happened, you should do that, this and that."

If it's unrelated to glitches and the such, this person is usually down voted to oblivion and has comments along the lines of "PBE is a beta environment ONLY for the testing of bugs." Some times not so kindly.


Hmm... That's an interesting one, most of the very opinionated threads I was able to read were generally very crude and they didn't hold back their powerful opinions, even if they weren't correct. This type of heavy opinion is likely, at least on these forums, going to find heavy resistance to people with a differing opinion - and with so many individuals from different walks of life visiting the PBE, there are bound to be some extra aggressive posts

Almost any time I post on the forums, I try to be informative, or ask for as much information as possible, and absolutely try not to make anyone feel bad. I might disagree with their opinion if it is a thread like that, but I try to state in a massive post of information as to why I disagree with what they are saying.

Quote:
I'm aware of why the PBE exists, however there are some reasons why statements like this make me a lil' angry. Think about it this way, each PBE account is like a person Riot could be paying to test and find bugs (which I'm sure they still have). So getting the weekly stipends are their way of "paying" us. If that's my reason for testing what's the big problem?
Actually the weekly stipends are so we can purchase things and keep testing out the store. If they bring out new runes, new skins, or new champions - well, the first step is whether or not we can even purchase it, right?

Differing amounts of RP or IP, where the buyables are located, it forces us to check out these extra aspects - instead of just having it in our account when we log in.

Even if it was how they were 'paying' us, everything being 390, and the Champion Bundle being only 10 RP means that you can own everything pretty quickly with these weekly stipends. On top of that, you'll start holding on to a massive amount of RP/IP waiting for the next buy worthy thing to come out, so it quickly loses its value.

If stipends are your reason for playing, that's perfectly okay! You're still contributing by checking out the store each time a stipend hits.

Quote:
You also see this one a lot, "Having fun is secondary to testing". I'm sorry if there a majority of you that agree with this, but to me they should be equal in priority. If your in a game where someone fed a ridiculous amount, or there are AFKs making it uneven on your team and you can't do anything without being graped, how are you supposed to find the incentive to play another game let alone test a bug?
Ah, this one I entirely disagree with. By this one, I mean anyone that says "having fun is secondary to testing". Maybe I'm really odd, or weird, or anything like that... but I have plenty of fun while testing, and even while just hopping into an ARAM for some chaos, I have fun.

I have fun regardless of what I'm doing, if I was miserable the entire time, there'd really be no point to test at all, would there? If I was miserable doing anything here, testing, or playing random games, I probably just wouldn't want to do it. The incentive is always to have fun.

There are multiple different player types - the ones that enjoy learning new things (testers), the ones that enjoy winning or a challenge (competitive play), the ones that enjoy a more chaotic atmosphere (big bug testers), and the ones that enjoy being malicious (trolls and toxic players), the ones that want to own everything (buyers).

PBE pertains to almost every single one of these in a different way (they should all be having fun doing what they enjoy doing) - and each one is absolutely useful as long as they provide feedback of some sort, to the environment. Yes, even trolls can be useful - that's what the player behavior initiative is for, isn't it?

But I digress. Back on topic - everyone should be enjoying themselves to some extent, if you are bored, or not having fun, or feel no incentive, then why do it at all? You've got to get something back for it, or you just won't do it. This even pertains to writing up a bug report.

Quote:
Lastly, let's say I want to play a champ that I may not own on the live server, or there's a new skin that hasn't been released quite yet and I want to play with it, what's the big fuss?
Well, here's the issue I have with this. While I said above I do want everyone to have fun (except for the trolls, no fun should come at the cost of another individuals fun), I dislike it when players go through the effort of buying an account, signing up on the PBE, and then test one or two things they were curious about that won't be out for a few weeks, and then leaving without offering any feedback or input whatsoever.

I mean, at least write up a small summary feedback post on the forums, or tell people in Public Chat 1 why you don't like something, or if you do like something, tell us that too! Make yourself heard! The point of PBE is testing, but more importantly, feedback for Riot.

Those individuals that sign up and only log in when they know a new champ is out, or skin, or rework, and play it for an hour, and then log off without really offering anything in return, it disheartens me. You're just using the PBE to know whether you want to purchase something or not when it comes out on live - at that point, and offering nothing really back. That's not the point of the PBE at all - the point is to test it out, offer your feedback, have yourself heard! Help make things better, it isn't even hard to do!

Quote:
I have played over 300 games on the PBE, and not once has anyone said "Ok, Let's see what bugs there are on "X" skin or "X" champion". Not even anything close to that. Most Bugs are found through casual play, the perfect timing of abilities and code that create a problem. So even if there are groups of people dedicated to joining matches with each other for the sole purpose of finding bugs, unless they are just playing the game, less will be done than those who solely play for the fun of the game and accidentally fall upon an issue. Just sayin'.
Haha.. you must not play very many ARAM's. If you did, I'm sure we'd meet, and I usually mention that I'm trying to test one thing or another. Even in other game modes I end up playing, I might mention I'm trying to test things here or there.

You are right, most bugs are indeed found through casual play, or happenstance. That's why we have so many players playing at once. Someone is bound to stumble upon something odd with X item in Y champions inventory interactions with Z environment. It would've taken ages otherwise. However, they probably didn't realize it was the item, with the champion, being on this map - in this bush, or so on. That's when feedback is very important, and co-ordination is even more so.

The issue I have is when those players stumble upon a bug, and are, once again, too lazy or indifferent to report it in some way. They just say "LOL That was really messed up! Oh well." and keep playing for fun. There's a point when those individuals discover something and don't report it just because they want to spam ranked matches for their fun, that's when I start to get, again, disheartened, and think they should have taken the few minutes to make that issue heard somehow. I'm sure this is a rarity, or at least, that's what I keep telling myself.

Quote:
I can take a loss. I can take a DC/AFK. I can even tolerate a troll from time to time, but it really bugs me (no pun intended) when there's such a strong opinion, it seems, about whether or not you're supposed to have "fun" when testing.
I can take all of that too, and I want everyone to have fun, that's why we're playing a game. However, when we sign up for the Public Beta Environment, I'd like it to mean something more than knowing whether you're dropping RP/IP on a new champ next patch, or to have an alternative to your normal game-play where you have access to free RP or IP. When feedback isn't offered occasionally in return, it, again, disheartens me.

TL;DR - It is a game-testing environment - so both. Having fun is fine, playing for fun is fine, not specifically coming on to test is absolutely fine. However, when you offer no feedback anywhere, I start to think individuals are just using the system for their own purposes and not really contributing anything. There's a reason there is a sign up and not just everyone can come flooding in all at once, it's because we'd like it if we had feedback!


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Pika Fox

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Imo, theres a key difference between the PBE and live. Here on the PBE, we are here to test and have fun. On live, youre there to have fun and win games. The main difference on the PBE is that while youre expected to test and have fun, you shouldnt be expecting to win. Its a testing environment, and a such its a lot more finicky. Disconnects WILL happen at times. Sure, they may make the game a little less fun, but its to be expected of a testing realm. People WILL play offbuilds. Because testing realm. For all we know, the bug to garens E that makes it proc with lich bane could come back. Everything about everything that gets added needs to be tested for balance purposes and playability purposes. Raging at every little setback that "may make you lose that precious AI winstreak" isnt really what we are here for, and why a lot of the posters about "having fun" are downvoted into oblivion.


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vApexPredator

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
WerewolfTrey:
I'll check this out point by point. Prepare for an enormous, massive, gigantic wall of text.



Hmm... That's an interesting one, most of the very opinionated threads I was able to read were generally very crude and they didn't hold back their powerful opinions, even if they weren't correct. This type of heavy opinion is likely, at least on these forums, going to find heavy resistance to people with a differing opinion - and with so many individuals from different walks of life visiting the PBE, there are bound to be some extra aggressive posts

Almost any time I post on the forums, I try to be informative, or ask for as much information as possible, and absolutely try not to make anyone feel bad. I might disagree with their opinion if it is a thread like that, but I try to state in a massive post of information as to why I disagree with what they are saying.

Actually the weekly stipends are so we can purchase things and keep testing out the store. If they bring out new runes, new skins, or new champions - well, the first step is whether or not we can even purchase it, right?

Differing amounts of RP or IP, where the buyables are located, it forces us to check out these extra aspects - instead of just having it in our account when we log in.

Even if it was how they were 'paying' us, everything being 390, and the Champion Bundle being only 10 RP means that you can own everything pretty quickly with these weekly stipends. On top of that, you'll start holding on to a massive amount of RP/IP waiting for the next buy worthy thing to come out, so it quickly loses its value.

If stipends are your reason for playing, that's perfectly okay! You're still contributing by checking out the store each time a stipend hits.

Ah, this one I entirely disagree with. By this one, I mean anyone that says "having fun is secondary to testing". Maybe I'm really odd, or weird, or anything like that... but I have plenty of fun while testing, and even while just hopping into an ARAM for some chaos, I have fun.

I have fun regardless of what I'm doing, if I was miserable the entire time, there'd really be no point to test at all, would there? If I was miserable doing anything here, testing, or playing random games, I probably just wouldn't want to do it. The incentive is always to have fun.

There are multiple different player types - the ones that enjoy learning new things (testers), the ones that enjoy winning or a challenge (competitive play), the ones that enjoy a more chaotic atmosphere (big bug testers), and the ones that enjoy being malicious (trolls and toxic players), the ones that want to own everything (buyers).

PBE pertains to almost every single one of these in a different way (they should all be having fun doing what they enjoy doing) - and each one is absolutely useful as long as they provide feedback of some sort, to the environment. Yes, even trolls can be useful - that's what the player behavior initiative is for, isn't it?

But I digress. Back on topic - everyone should be enjoying themselves to some extent, if you are bored, or not having fun, or feel no incentive, then why do it at all? You've got to get something back for it, or you just won't do it. This even pertains to writing up a bug report.

Well, here's the issue I have with this. While I said above I do want everyone to have fun (except for the trolls, no fun should come at the cost of another individuals fun), I dislike it when players go through the effort of buying an account, signing up on the PBE, and then test one or two things they were curious about that won't be out for a few weeks, and then leaving without offering any feedback or input whatsoever.

I mean, at least write up a small summary feedback post on the forums, or tell people in Public Chat 1 why you don't like something, or if you do like something, tell us that too! Make yourself heard! The point of PBE is testing, but more importantly, feedback for Riot.

Those individuals that sign up and only log in when they know a new champ is out, or skin, or rework, and play it for an hour, and then log off without really offering anything in return, it disheartens me. You're just using the PBE to know whether you want to purchase something or not when it comes out on live - at that point, and offering nothing really back. That's not the point of the PBE at all - the point is to test it out, offer your feedback, have yourself heard! Help make things better, it isn't even hard to do!

Haha.. you must not play very many ARAM's. If you did, I'm sure we'd meet, and I usually mention that I'm trying to test one thing or another. Even in other game modes I end up playing, I might mention I'm trying to test things here or there.

You are right, most bugs are indeed found through casual play, or happenstance. That's why we have so many players playing at once. Someone is bound to stumble upon something odd with X item in Y champions inventory interactions with Z environment. It would've taken ages otherwise. However, they probably didn't realize it was the item, with the champion, being on this map - in this bush, or so on. That's when feedback is very important, and co-ordination is even more so.

The issue I have is when those players stumble upon a bug, and are, once again, too lazy or indifferent to report it in some way. They just say "LOL That was really messed up! Oh well." and keep playing for fun. There's a point when those individuals discover something and don't report it just because they want to spam ranked matches for their fun, that's when I start to get, again, disheartened, and think they should have taken the few minutes to make that issue heard somehow. I'm sure this is a rarity, or at least, that's what I keep telling myself.

I can take all of that too, and I want everyone to have fun, that's why we're playing a game. However, when we sign up for the Public Beta Environment, I'd like it to mean something more than knowing whether you're dropping RP/IP on a new champ next patch, or to have an alternative to your normal game-play where you have access to free RP or IP. When feedback isn't offered occasionally in return, it, again, disheartens me.

TL;DR - It is a game-testing environment - so both. Having fun is fine, playing for fun is fine, not specifically coming on to test is absolutely fine. However, when you offer no feedback anywhere, I start to think individuals are just using the system for their own purposes and not really contributing anything. There's a reason there is a sign up and not just everyone can come flooding in all at once, it's because we'd like it if we had feedback!

too short


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Needles K

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Pika Fox:
Imo, theres a key difference between the PBE and live. Here on the PBE, we are here to test and have fun. On live, youre there to have fun and win games. The main difference on the PBE is that while youre expected to test and have fun, you shouldnt be expecting to win. Its a testing environment, and a such its a lot more finicky. Disconnects WILL happen at times. Sure, they may make the game a little less fun, but its to be expected of a testing realm. People WILL play offbuilds. Because testing realm. For all we know, the bug to garens E that makes it proc with lich bane could come back. Everything about everything that gets added needs to be tested for balance purposes and playability purposes. Raging at every little setback that "may make you lose that precious AI winstreak" isnt really what we are here for, and why a lot of the posters about "having fun" are downvoted into oblivion.

I think this is pretty much the reason. It's not that they object to you having fun, but that they don't like people focusing on the fun to the exclusion of the testing aspect. If you're really concerned about your promo series on PBE, that's a sign that you're doing something wrong. If you're bothered by somebody verbally abusing you, yeah, that's OK and you should report them, because the PBE shouldn't be a draining chore.


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