The Blackfire Renaissance is overrated (RIOTNOMEEEE)

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MMKH

Senior Member

03-14-2013

BFT sucks, Lichbane is where it's at. /trololo


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konfetarius

Senior Member

03-14-2013

The real Viktim here is Viktor.

But, yeah, overall, AP itemization is a lot better than I originally gave it credit for. Mostly, I think the flaws (as in underpowered items and holes; Sweeper/Wooglet are pretty OP but I suspect that's necessary for mages to compete in Dominion) are:

1. Morellonomicon could use a buff (mostly change of passive to something more interesting/practical).

2. I am on now more on board with RoA/Tear stack up speed buffs than I was before. Rod of Ages is fantastic for champions that fall under manatank class of builds (like Swain or Kog'Maw or Kassadin), but I don't like how restrictive it is in that it must be your first item if you want to make good use of it. Ditto for tear. The only downside is buffs for these items are buffs for Kassawin, but sigh, drop in the ocean mate, drop in the ocean.

3. Will of the Ancients still sucks because spellvamp largely still sucks (sorry Sauron). It does not compete with life steal as a rush item, it is outclassed by Gunblade (a god damn Hybrid item) as a late game Spellvamp option for slot (hmm, 15AP on WotA, or a long range AP scaling nuke with a slow attached to it? GEE, I WONDER). I will forever maintain that my dream is to see the AD/Life Steal with related cost slashed from it, cost reduced appropriately. There - our fabled promised Hextech Bazooka, only problem is figuring out a new item path because the active comes from Cutlass, an AD item. I HAVE BIG HOPES NOME CONSIDERS THE PLIGHT OF SPELLVAMP AND IMPLEMENTS THE ABOVE DESCRIBED HEXTECH BAZOOKA BEAUCUASE WE DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH SR'S ZOMG MANALESS AP SUSTAIN OP IN LANE BULLCRAP!

4. There should either be an AP QSS upgrade or an AP Tenacity item on part with Zephyr. Not having Sorc Shoes hurts mage damage output significantly more than not having Zerker Shoes hurts AD.

I haven't talked much about Rylai/DFG in this post, but I think they are largely fine as late game build options despite cost/damage deficiencies for early game. Not every major item needs to be competitive as the first big item to rush.

Nashor's Tooth I am still ambivalent about. But that's mostly because because Malady sucks so you can't truly specialize in attack speed proper as an AP unless you are also a Rageblade candidate. I'll wait to see what Xypherous does about combining the two items or reworking Malady first.


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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

03-14-2013

I just wish when they did the CDR changes they removed it from BFT. THe point was to make it difficult to build into and NOT ubiquitous, and having 20% on a bft does EXACTLY that. Nerfing it to 10% forces a bigger choice between items, with regard to CDR. Personally, I would at a bare minimum take 5% off of bft and move it back to dfg, 15% each.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetarius View Post
Personal preference wise, sure. Practical power wise, no. The 40 MR can and will be the difference between Annie 100-0ing you without retaliation, and you know, actual retaliation. Ditto for dying to splash damage from Amumu AoE and the like. Or getting CC'd before you complete your combo. Assuming perfect positioning/play scenario from yourself doesn't compete with assuming you will get outplayed or ambushed or that you will plain ol' **** up.

This is true even at the highest levels of competition, let alone the derpitude that is solo queu.
How is 40 MR going to save you against an annie who caught you if you are Fizz or LeBlanc? Especially after she gets a void staff and flat pen.


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Talith PA

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Why would she get a void staff against your whopping 70 MR when she already has flat pen?

With runes, sorcs, and guise you have 50 pen.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
How is 40 MR going to save you against an annie who caught you if you are Fizz or LeBlanc? Especially after she gets a void staff and flat pen.
Errr.... you will survive the burst and be able to run away or shoot back. That's all there is to it. Not that I am recommending Athenes on those two specific champions, if you want MR for them Abyssal is a far better choice given who they generally hunt.


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Talith PA

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetarius View Post
who they generally hunt.
Bottomlanetarius. Lanetarius for short.


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Quincunx

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetarius View Post
Errr.... you will survive the burst and be able to run away or shoot back. That's all there is to it. Not that I am recommending Athenes on those two specific champions, if you want MR for them Abyssal is a far better choice given who they generally hunt.
You could also sit on a Negatron if you don't want to finish an Abyssal


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talith PA View Post
Why would she get a void staff against your whopping 70 MR when she already has flat pen?

With runes, sorcs, and guise you have 50 pen.
For the 150+ mr allies?
Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetarius View Post
Errr.... you will survive the burst and be able to run away or shoot back. That's all there is to it. Not that I am recommending Athenes on those two specific champions, if you want MR for them Abyssal is a far better choice given who they generally hunt.
40 Mr raises you from 0 mr to 6 mr based on Talith's post (void staff and 50 pen, with 50 base mr from runes and/or mr/level). Doubt that will help if you get caught. And burst champions fighting is very much a game of who gets caught. On Annie or Viktor as examples, they cast spells in a sustained fashion and should absolutely pick Athenes. But when you are about the damage, damage, and more damage, sacrificing AP for a bit of MR in a high pen environment is... questionable.

Oh, and, generally my rule for Lichbane is: Does the champion use autoattacks to directly apply part of their combo/sustained damage? Yes? It's a good choice, and depending on the kit a good rush. No? Don't bother.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Bottomlanetarius. Lanetarius for short.
All the more reason to get MR. Erasing things when getting ganked never gets old.

Quote:
40 Mr raises you from 0 mr to 6 mr based on Talith's post (void staff and 50 pen, with 50 base mr from runes and/or mr/level).
If you are Fizz, and remember to use MR runes, you already have base 60 MR by level 12ish. Talith is also describing a fully committed mpen page, which you rarely encounter. And if your tank has Aegis, that's another 15 MR for you. In this scenario you go from taking true damage to having 20 MR by getting a negation Cloak.

Yeah, kind of a big deal. Plus, not to mention, not every AP will follow Sorc->HG->Void staff pathway along with a 20 mpen page even though its almost invariably the biggest damage booster. They might want defensive measures or CDR measures themselves.

Quote:
You could also sit on a Negatron if you don't want to finish an Abyssal
There's that. Abyssal is mostly for low MR enemies or AP heavy teams in the first place.


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