The Blackfire Renaissance is overrated (RIOTNOMEEEE)

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Weeks1

Senior Member

03-14-2013

I was going to ask about Lichbane too. Nice posts konf.

Question though, where does Sweeper fit in such a build, if at all? I suppose Le Blanc doesn't have that much need for it, but some other mages do.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

03-14-2013

K; added Lichbane. Its raw potential surprised me given even low AP values. However, I must stress once again that Lichbane use has limiting factors:

1. You need to successfully land autos. This can be much harder than you think.

2. If your champion fires EVERYTHING in too quick a time frame, Lichbane degrades your natural rotation damage output if you want to use more than 1 proc in rapid succession. This may or may not be worth it (it probably is for 2 procs, but I suspect its not worth delaying your spells by staggering them for 3 back to back lichbane procs for vast majority of champions - I think that that kind of efficient Lichbane use is reserved for heroes with a spell that has a 2 second cooldown or something very close to it.)

3. Some champions will just flat out use it better than others because of animations or natural cooldown arrays. Someone like Ziggs or Cass or Annie are better suited for it than Le Blank or Annivia. Note to self - try Lichbane Ahri and Lichbane Xerath for the lulz.

4. Void staff flat out beats it if they are stacking MR, conversely, it beats Void Staff if they are allowing themselves to be penetrated to or near zero with just runes/shoes/HG (remember, the big, scary % penetration Void staff damage boost only does anything if they have actual MR to be penetrated!).

5. Even if you try to go for the first rotation kill (i.e. stagger your spells but not worry about overall DPS loss; just care about getting that burst from the first set of button presses), trying to go for 3 back to back procs results in extending a potentially 1 second combo into a 4-5 second combo (or even more depending on attack animation shenanigans). This may or may not be extremely hazardous to your squishy health.


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Nyx87

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Senior Member

03-14-2013

Now I could be wrong, but shouldn't Abyssal's break("waste point") point be higher because of the 8% mastery? Same with Voidstaff?(I suck with math[really I'm too lazy and want others to do the work])


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konfetarius

Senior Member

03-14-2013

I lazied my way through that one. Yeah you are right, that breakpoint is 4 MR higher. The values for 100/150 MR are within margin of laziness to not correct them though, they get the picture across. I am already doing a big approximation overall by picking out a specific hero and generalizing across all APs.

While I doubt there are champions outside of extreme fringe cases like AP Kog'Maw or Katarina that significantly deviate from how your standard AP operates, I am comfortable enough with this generalization as a whole. I would only rerun these numbers for a different champion/skill set if I explicitly wanted to fine tune the build to point of absolute mastery, otherwise you can just guess the trends depending on where AP ratios and base damages end up relative to each other.


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Sauron

Senior Member

03-14-2013

TL;DR: Blackfire Torch is rude.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

03-14-2013

You should write for Reign of Gaming--they can help refine your technique while you provide the epic Dominion theorycrafting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricedream5 View Post
Agreed ^^

Next step is to see how incredibly strong Void is for raw damage nowadays.
I know that in terms of damage, RoG found that it tends to almost always be better for its price than Rabadon's Deathcap.

Wooglet's has the neat armor and utility active, though, so yeah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetarius View Post
well, let's do another quick arithmetic and find out if it's rushworthy given the most basic alternatives: Void staff, wooglets, abyssal, lichbane. Back to LeBonk the ap lady! Let's orient around level 12 (first major item completion).
Ftfy.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

03-14-2013

I've started wondering about what sort of mage builds are dps optimal now, and how CDR compares to flat penetration.

Basically, how powerful is Sorcs > BFT rush compared to, say, Kindlegem/Codex rush > Ionains > Void over the course of a couple of seconds?


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konfetarius

Senior Member

03-14-2013

CDR DPS comparisons are incredibly icky and shouldn't be generalized outside per hero basis. They also rely on high familiarity with playstyle with the hero and the typical enemy/ally match up (Brand's DPS increase via CDR vs. Syndra is going to look hell of a lot different from let's say Jax. Also, factoring in getting how his passive work with his combos, his harass, enemy HP itemization, etc. and I want to cowardly crawl away).

Personally speaking, I used to be a major raw CDR rush fanboy in S2 and often felt sad when my mage damage basically sucked. Then I switched to Sorc Shoes + Morello builds, and noted a significant damage increase. Then came BFT era, and my retarded self was finally clued in that yes, penetration is that good, so now I only have complaints about AP damage on a few very specific heroes. So, practically speaking? If you are a mage, imo, Sorc + HG as first items or bust if you are interested in damage.

But, CDR is still a multiplicative DPS stat like attack speed is for ADC; it is defensive, it is utility, so I try to have it maxed before I move on to Void/ Wooglets/etc.

Quote:
You should write for Reign of Gaming--they can help refine your technique while you provide the epic Dominion theorycrafting.
Meh. Too much effort. My well of theory craft would run dry within a few articles, anything beyond that requires more math/excell than I care to relearn/learn at this moment. I am happy with occasional stream of conscience when I get sufficiently bored for now.

Also, euwww. That place, like, has Hainshin all over it.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

03-14-2013

My personal opinion, at the moment, is that Blackfire Torch is a lot more balanced now than it used to be. Wooglet's Witchcap is a great item that makes some mages consider which item to get. There are also other AP items that might be worth getting. That is my impression, anyway.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

03-14-2013

Agreed, Sylian.
Mages actually have a lot of good itemization choices, and you can build for different situations really easily now.

I'm actually kinda sad by good itemization, because I hate having to choose items : (
I JUST WANNA BUY EVERYTHING!! WHY MUST I CHOOSE!!!!!!


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