Let's talk about Champ Select

First Riot Post
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dotanator

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Junior Member

04-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by milllo View Post
This is really thinking outside the box idea. I am not saying it is good, just that it is different. Solo queue ranked is supposed to measure skill to compare with other players. So how about it be changed so that when you enter lobby, one of the champs in your list is selected for you and you are stuck with it. Then the team spends the time discussing how to strategize with the group rather than fighting about who plays what.
Get thee to All Random (optional All Mid)


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Phillip99

Member

04-18-2013

@Lyte

It seems the issue in champ select is "How do we decrease "toxicity"/encourage cooperation without negatively affecting queue times or forcing the game the be played in a certain way?"

One solution that has partially been mentioned is adding pre-game chat with the ready/check system. The issue with this would be that you would be extending the process of getting into a game and make the barrier for entry more difficult for beginners that do not understand the game.

One way around that could be to create a multipath system to a single queue. When selecting the type or game you can check a box that puts you into a pre-game lobby for discussion until everyone readies up or check a second box that just throws you into the current champ select screen asap.

This would give those that want to plan out their team strategy more time while still allowing others to game quickly and would keep everyone in the same queue together.


-------------------------

Another thought on this issue which was previously brought up is that when someone says mid/top or ap/bruiser they are not really calling a position but are calling one of the revenue streams available in the game. The issue with this si that there are only 4 in the game currently. If you resolve this by adding a 5th revenue stream of equal value i.e. adding an mastery/rune/item that does something like..

*Gives additional gold to a champ for assists
*Gives additional gold to a champ for being within the experience range of dying minions/monsters(have it divided among all member on a team that choose that mastery/item to prevent 5 man lanes).


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Worst Fiora NA

Senior Member

04-18-2013

1 is the best option in my opinion. It makes it more possible for players to leave a queue with a toxic player and get away with it. Obviously it will have it's setbacks, like a set amount of votes per day. But the other 2 I have a problem with.

The second idea will still allow trolling. You simply join as a certain role, in this example I'll make the role "Support". Then, when the troll joins the queue, they can refuse to be a support champion. And since you cant really set specific allowings for the designated ideas, Like adding Leona and the "supports" to the "Support" queue, it won't work that well.

The third one is also not very good, because it allows for a lot of bad things. Many players can get stuck queueing with toxic players due to false reports or having a single bad day, as in the example you posted.

So overall, it seems as if the first idea, vote kick, is probably the most helpful and most efficient.


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Atzero

Senior Member

04-18-2013

The way I see it, duo queue for ranked games should be eliminated. Either the duo queue gives a tremendous advantage, potentially making the game completely one sided, or a massive liability, potentially making the game unwinnable. All ranked queues should be single, or completely premade.

1. Instead of Vote-Kick, why not have Vote-Dodge? The team could have the option to vote to dodge the game. Everything in this thread about champ select being stressful is, I believe, to be true. However, I also do not believe that forcing a group of 5 random people to be a team will always work. Therefore, no harm, no foul.

2. WoW Dungeon system. I would happily accept longer queue times for no conflict champ select. Trying to do this without enforcing the meta might be difficult, but here is my suggestion. You have the option to queue as the current meta (solo top/tank, ap carry mid, etc), or you should have the option to queue as free form, or not bound by champ roles. For free form games, the time limit in champ select should be increased to facilitate more communication of strategy. This would apply to both ranked and normal.

3. Prisoners Island I think could work, only if it was used as a tribunal punishment. If the community deems you toxic, and we all vote to punish, your punishments could be: A warning, a time ban, permaban, or prisoners island with ranked queues disabled for a week.


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dotanator

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Junior Member

04-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Simply extending the timer in Champ Select does reduce some of the pressure; if we improved how trading worked in Champ Select, this might be an effective start to reducing the friction in Champ Select.

However, extending the timer also increases the time it takes into the game across the board and it potentially allows toxic players a longer time to bully or harass their teammates.

Overall, not a bad idea other than the global increase in time-to-enter-game.

@Lyte

---I am completely okay with spending an extra minute or two in Champ Select (or even in a pre-Champ Select lobby with my teammates), given that my team will come out built better, willing to cooperate more, or that we would at least be able to build closer to how we would prefer to play that game (when considering going against the meta). ^_^

---Alternatively, someone mentioned implementing some sort of role/champion/lane template tab in the Summoner Profile. I envision this acting similar to Runes and Masteries, only that it is selected when entering a queue, affecting what sort of teammates each summoner is randomly plopped into a game with.

---A variation to the template idea would be something like the WoW queue options.
I can see a penalty being applied to a summoner who doesn't actually follow the role they queued for IF they were matched based on the assumption that they were taking one of the roles they selected. I can't immediately think of a way to FORCE a player to take one of the roles they queue into, except by imposing some degree of penalty. On top of that, penalties might be imposed upon a summoner who does pick one of the roles they queued for, but fails their role horrendously... the latter is an unrefined idea and overlaps with the Report: Unskilled Player option that currently exists.
---The penalty could be less IP, a subtraction from one of their Honor values (or a new one), or a -x to their reward/penalty when determining ranked play progression within their League.

---I'm seeing some sort of rating involving how well the summoner plays [insert role] when he/she queues for it. The rating wouldn't necessarily be visible, but definitely taken into account when allowing/placing them into said role.
...So say I enter a queue indicating that I'm willing to take a Tank or Support role. When I play tanks, I / my team rarely do well... I would have a low rating for the Tank role. On the other hand, when I get the Support place on teams, I / we generally end up better.
Again, whether this variable/rating is visible to all of those on my team or just taken into account when a team is being matchmade -- this is all up to your discretion and would also depend completely on the change(s) to matchmaking that are implemented.

***Finally, I like the idea of having the option to be able to select 2-5 "preferred" champions and/or bans for a given game. This can also involve a similar rating system to what I have mentioned above, indicating success with champions played and enemy team bans. This could even involve data for each of my preferred champions paired with bans, allowing captains to compose a team and organize their bans more clearly and readily.

Take this as you will, it's just my two-cents. I look forward to whatever you all decide to send our way, willing to work through it for better or worse, as we move toward a better "quality-of-life" in the LoL community.

Thank you for your attention and dedication to this issue!


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Vadgina Bush

Senior Member

04-18-2013

I like to give my feedback about this game because I feel like Riot listens more than other game companies, so here goes.

First I'd like to say that this was a really well organised post and that I appreciate how Riot has actually taken initiative to improve the quality of its in-game community. I'm not saying this as a kiss-up. :P

As for the three suggestions:

Vote Kick

As convenient and useful as this concept would be, I also can imagine it being liable to get abused. It's still a good idea, but it's the most likely one to get abused.

WoW Dungeon Finder

I think this would be the most useful to everyone in general, however, it depends on enforcing a meta, which would destroy the game for people who want to play it creatively unless they get a premade. I don't completely hate the meta, but I do hate being bound to it as though it's the only way to play. I'd like to retain the ability to try new stuff in non-ranked PvP.

Prisoner's Island

This one would be the most useful one to me as an individual, as I'm unable to improve when I'm paired with ragers who will harass me over my mistakes. There's nothing that bothers me more than being more afraid of my own team than my enemy team. This is also the solution that's least liable for abuse, as it would encourage people to improve their behaviour if they want to be teamed with nicer people.

That is all I have to say. I never was good at conclusions. This is a conclusion. :/


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BPNess

Member

04-19-2013

i think the most important champ select feature would be to not allow chat until everyone is in the room or make it so that chat that occurred before you got in the room is visible.
I was about to play a game and there was a malphite running flash clarity and my first instinct was cool a malph support, top and jung are called and last one is hovering between Ez and vayne heis carrying so mid is left.
Me: "Mid Pls"
Malph: "Why?"
Me: "its nicer to say pls"
15 secs later
Malph: im mid
5
Me:kk
4..3...2...1
you have been kicked for failing to select champ, i have no prob with supporting or malph breaking the meta but how am i supposed to know that the malph, with clarity, is going mid. the call never showed up for me.
TL;DR Pls no chat until all in room or make chat that occured before you got into the room visible


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Ladayen

Senior Member

04-20-2013

Was just in champ select. 2 people call top 3rd guy locks in jax. I ask Where you going Jax? Without waiting for an answer I pull him up on LoLking. 3 games in match history with under 5k gold total. No thanks. Back to game still no answer I just alt f4.

Of course now I have to wait(thankfully it wasn't a ranked game) while he simply goes on to wreck some other game. I understand having dodge penalties to help prevent abuse but why is it deemed a low priority to allow us to report this behavior so it can be addressed. Far too often people troll in champ select because they are well aware there is a very small chance of them actually being reported for it.


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Findoglorian

Member

04-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladayen View Post
Of course now I have to wait(thankfully it wasn't a ranked game) while he simply goes on to wreck some other game. I understand having dodge penalties to help prevent abuse but why is it deemed a low priority to allow us to report this behavior so it can be addressed. Far too often people troll in champ select because they are well aware there is a very small chance of them actually being reported for it.
I like the concept of any 1 player being able to votekick any other player every X number of games, but it should be based on X number of wins not number of games, this causes trolls to have less frequent votekick abilities than actual players. Is every 4 wins too often, I would rather wait through 8 queues than be forced penalties by these people (either losing or dodging/losing LP). Also requiring a reason for votekick "spamming" "harrassment" "refusing to communicate (hate this one most)." Then the kicked person has a 5 min penalty without any LP penalty and can join another lobby. If a player gets reported/kicked frequently it goes to the Tribunal.

Or allow people a votekick every 2 wins and require 2 or 3 votes to boot a players (duos count as 1 vote).


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alaskaneagle

Senior Member

04-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
If we gave players 1 votekick per day for example, it's highly likely that most players use their 1 kick of the day. If you consider the statistical probability of 10 players in a game, each with 1 free vote kick that could be used in any given lobby... you see that we basically double or triple the number of Champion Select Lobbies that are required before one actually enters a game.
54367

Not if the system keeps the players and pulls a random from one level lower to put in his place. Then they have to decide between the troll or a guy who might be less skilled.

That way there is both benefit and detriment to keep it from being abused.