What we know about Zac's kit

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Baxter900

Senior Member

03-12-2013

I started one about the next upcoming champion, please take a look: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3238593


Edit: Sorry that this post is so much of a disorganized mess I kind of gave up on formatting and just started throwing things in there at some point.



AND he's in PBE! After waiting half an hour for the queues to go away I can honestly say he's awesome. And to Subninja, is the passive your reffering to that he grows with health because we kind of got somewhere near that. Thank you to everyone who helped, and to Subninja for being awesome enough to leak enough hints that we managed to guess most of hit kit!!!










To anyone posting about the Anivia passive and the Cho'goth interaction via growing, check to see that your idea isn't up here. About 65% of the posts are repeating the same idea's about these two things.


[B]Xelnath upvoted two posts in this thread, one that's right, one that's wrong. Since there is almost no way to tell which ones he upvoted, the best we can do is know that something in the comments was right.


This shows Zac's stages of growth should he have a "growing" mechanic: http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws....7wt6RSqfEN.jpg


Earlier this week, Zac's recommended build was leaked in PBE files. If you want to see the recommended build that was leaked you can go here: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Z.A.C./Strategy


However this tells us a decent amount about Zac's kit.

We know Riot expects him to be used as a Jungler due to hunter's machete starting.
We know that he is likely manaless due to no recommended mana potions.
We know he likely has a heal, possibly only a self heal, due to spirit visage being recommended on all builds, even with very little other health regen.
We know he is tanky.
We know he scales off of AP.
He likely scales off of health somehow due to more health items being given than armor or MR.
The speed boots indicate he either has a great use for MS or he is naturally very slow.
Zac likely has high base damage with low damage AP scaling and high AP scaling on sustain due to the fact that the Spirit or the Spectral Wraith is preferred over the Spirit of the Ancient Golem on a tank build. Means spell vamp is used and AP is used for sustain.
Likely close range battle mage if built as a bruiser due to abyssal scepter and sunfire cape.
Likely has an AOE attack due to Rylai's. (Acritcratna also pointed out that Rylai's is good for DOT and lack of CC, DOT i doubt due to it not proccing spell vamp {most of the time}, but the lack of CC is a good point because it partially explains the boots of speed.)

Just putting it here because it's confusing: Zac is both similar to Cho'goth, and has an accidental interaction with Cho'goth's feast. THESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. And they've gotten confused here a little (I'm even guilty of it). Just a disclaimer, Riot quotes are at the bottom.

Random other info leaked(by Subninja of course):
Only has legs sometimes
Pulled from different blob-like tropes
Still punches stuff but "doesn't just punch stuff"
Still one part of his kit that's "kinda adorable"
450 base movement speed(I'm an idiot and didn't think before posting Subninja said this, most likely as a joke)
Has a "very kinetic-feeling kit" (probably means abilities move him around a lot)
Oh, and he punches people... probably either as an auto-attack or a ranged skillshot(his arm shoots out and hits people or something) but however it works, Subninja seems semi-obsessed which means it's probably worth paying attention to,

Potential play mechanic guesses:


So Angel 64 pointed out his thread (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...9#post35535249) and that in all "blob like" monster related things, attempting to kill the blob only breaks it up into weaker segments which returns it into a more infantile stage. Crzymdscntst also pointed out that earlier, a Rioter had posted that Zac is "Like Anivia and has an interesting interaction with Cho'goth" So working together, we created this idea:

Quote:
It would be kind of an inverse Cho'goth (hence the "interaction" with him)

As Zac gets more health, Zac gets larger and more powerful. He also repairs himself(probably through ult) passively or actively (passively makes more sense but few ultimates have passive components), regaining large amounts of health.



This explains the Cho'goth interaction, why Zac builds large amounts of health, why Zac builds spirit Visage,why Zac's "like Anivia", and "Hard to kill", and if Zac's model changes simulating him "grow up" as he gets more powerful it would explain the recent Morello keeps posting about how they chose the wrong image of him to show in the journal thingy on threads about how Zac's not "cute" if he's humanoid.
Random other guess for passive: I think his passive could possibly be similar to Viegar's passive, except with health instead of mana. This would explain the prioritizing of health and spirit visage though since passives rarely scale off of AP or AD, it would eliminate one of the strongest potential reasons for buying AP on him, so now that I think about it, it sounds unlikely, like I said, random guess.

Knightmarre gave us another potential passive:
Quote:
I think his passive will be attack(or more likely armor and resist) scaling up with health missing
And here's a counter point to Knighmarre's idea with a great idea for a play mechanic at the end from Systoll:
Quote:
Attack, possibly, but I think a 'free resistances based on missing health' passive would run very much counter to Riot's current design patterns. It doesn't create windows of opportunity for opponents (like, say, Anivia's passive), or change the play of the champion in a way that differs substantially from getting weaker resists all the time (like Blitzcrank's), but it does introduce substantial confusion (by making the health bar misleading as long as the free resists are substantial). It'd somewhat increase the incentive to frontload your damage on him, but I can't see it being enough to matter (to make 'focussing the tank' something you do out of desire rather than necessity) without being, well, brokenly strong (I suppose the passive could go negative -- but that'd be rather unappealing). And, on his side, you'd get the 'Karma effect' if he has a shield (you want to hold onto it until you're almost dead, because that's when it's strongest) -- but this wouldn't apply to heals/vamp/regen.

The following wouldn't really be that useful with a 'kinetic' kit, and I highly doubt it'll be anything like the actual passive... but with the latest art, I just want him to have a gooey, stretchy group hug (functionally similar to Darius's E, perhaps with a short root involved), and this'd fit right in with that. SO:

Going with the idea of him splitting up when hurt, and with the idea of increasing strength near death, how about a passive where, as his health decreases, his body 'leaks' down and out around him, creating an AOE DOT (or an AOE debuff) of increasing size and strength? You could also have him remain in 'goo pool' state for a little while after death, to get the Anivia aspect in (though it's functionally closer to Kog'Maw or Karthus, and aesthetically closer to Vlad.).
Here's a good counte of Systoll's idea from Acritcratna:
Quote:
Yeah! I could really see a kind of AoE DoT "goo pool" or something forming around him. Rylai's, Zhonya's, and especially spell vamp would all be really good with this mechanic, and it would create a very interesting scenario with spell vamp where his healing gets more effective as he gets lower on health, which is always when you need the healing the most. And I like the idea of the pool remaining there for a few seconds after he dies, that would be really cool.

However, as a passive, I wonder if this mechanic would work, if it was based on percent health missing. If so, it could be too strong in the early levels of the game, when getting low on health is easier. Perhaps it would be tied to his level, so that both he himself and the pool he creates when his health drops gets bigger as his level increases? Or perhaps it would be tied to his ult instead?

One thing to consider, is that him getting more dangerous when low on health would mean he might need some significant damage output or something as well, because otherwise he will just be ignored - in team fights, nobody is going to focus the tanky guy who gets super scary when his health drops.


Lots of people proposing this one (I'm using Yaddar's post because he phrased it most eloquently, there are also tons of different variations so I'm just putting the basic idea):
Quote:
When he dies, he splits into multiple (X) small blobs they are unable to attack but they can move, they must be destroyed separately... after X seconds, the blobs remaining reunite each restoring Zac a % of his health, this effect occurs every XX seconds.
Many people have also pointed out that this could be the interaction with Cho'goth, it sure would look funny.

And here's a good counter post from VicariousxD to why this probably isn't the case:
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If that is it.. Wow he will be good in team fights. Imagine the chaos.. they could never scramble around for the little blobs!
And here's a counter counter argument by yaddar:
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After he "dies", AOE damage counters him, as all the blobs are getting destroyed.. while autoattacks get a harder time against him.. like a reverse effect from anivia''s egg


Here's a good point from Rex Draconum:
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I think his passive is his heal. if you remember he considers damage "positive stimuli" as noted in on ZAC 2, "page" 3. so something like he takes damage but then gains back some health, so the Veigar'ish passive is possible.
Empress Tianzi pointed out that he could possibly change appearance on leveling similar to how Pulsefire Ezreal does.

Objecti0n pointed out that the Cho'goth interaction might have to do with something other than feast, if Zac is immune to some types of CC, then it will look interesting if Cho'goth uses rupture on him.

Limbrok posted this, he might be reading to far into things (he even admits it in his post) but we all missed this and I think that it's likely he's partially right at least(also it uses some of the idea's we've already come up with):
Quote:
I think the Zaun Lab Bot revealed a lot of his kit and we are looking past a lot of it.

In his infantile stages (this is from Report 1 mind you), he is already observed as being ductile and flexible, which for those who don't know what ductile means, it is being able to be spread thin, kind of like Vladimir's pool. I think this has something to do with his relation to Anivia.

Perhaps, as he purchases health (which, for a slime blob, I guess health would translate to more... blob?), he becomes larger. However, as you physically harm him, he loses his size but also the slime solidifies (takes less damage?). (Log 2: Dynamic Hardness: 8.5. What is dynamic hardness, other than the fact that he can change how "solid" he is?) Interestingly for Chogath, this means that ZAC can start out quite large but as Chogath damages him, he will diminish in size not only to be Feasted on for damage but sizeable for even Chogath to eat. (This is why they joke that they think he will stick to the top of Chogath's mouth when feasted).

In relation to punching -- In his younger stages where he doesn't have arms, he may do different types of auto attacks or materialize small fists, but as he gets bigger, he develops the fists that we see in his final stage that becomes actual punching.

Also -- one huge tip we have is that there are FOUR logs, and thinking on a timeline here, they were released in chronological order, meaning as ZAC grew. In the duration of the game, what other 4 breakpoints are there besides leveling your ultimate? In Log 3, they mention he can dance when exposed to music, perhaps leveling his ultimate the SECOND time (assuming he starts with his ultimate), is when he develops his legs? Also, in the third Lab leak, it says if they don't free him he is going to hurt himself. Maybe a clue? I can't think of anything at the moment regarding that, though!

I feel like there is more information (or misinformation) in the Zaun Lab leaks, but this is just my speculation. Only time will tell, but it's still amazing and fun to try to figure it all out and piece it together!
Angel 64 has a good idea about the relation to Anivia that doesn't have to do with her passive:
Quote:
The only chance that I see that his "link" with Anivia isn't the rebirth/regenerative ability is this: He might create a wall of goo or something like that, maybe people even bounce from that wall (knockbacked when they touch it). He could even transform into the wall.

Or it could be more simple like an ability that launch a ball of goo and doing the abiliy again it explodes the ball like Anivia's Q, (But that ball will splash into smaller pieces).
iRiceroll has an interesting idea that we haven't really explored(even if one of his facts he based it off of is wrong):
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I have been reading threads lately about Z.A.C, Some people call him Unstable matter.

We did get some info about him sometimes walking.
So what if the amount of creeps or kills he gets he would become BIGGER, Or form a more full state of him actually growing there legs, arms, and body.
What if he had different evolution like Kha'Zix but going from a Liquid State to a Solid Monster State a.k.a final evolution.
Would it be possible he is a Green Blob that devours anything that touches him as his passive?
What if he can change states like Liquid to Solid, and his AP moves were all Gas->Liquid Combo.

What I believe his ult would be is to disperse in liquid state, and go anywhere under the champ, and move faster in rivers.
Timjin had a good point(and counter point):
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If you look at his recommended items, you will notice that Merc treads is not listed at all, which strengthens the possibility of kit anti-CC. However, Singed *had* (up until last patch) anti-CC through Tenacity in his kit, and still had Mercs rec recommended. Nautilus, another jungle Tank does not have them recommended on SR, the same goes for Sejuani, but not Amumu.

All and all we end up having no idea what this means from his comparisons, except that having anti-cc on your kit doesn't seem to have an effect on Merc recommendation.
Falkors Raiders pointed this out:
Quote:
The Boots of Mobility could be tied to the fact that he will be a very gank heavy jungler, similar to season 2 maokai in the fact that you pick up the boots early and want to just keep ganking lane after lane. The boots of mobility could also indicate a lack of a gap closer or mean that he has a snare/stun/slow that makes these particular boots really good for follow up.
and this too:
Quote:
If the term "kinetic" isnt used to allude to Zac having some movement speed increase in his kit, then "kinetic" would have to refer to either moving around/being mobile (similar to lee sin) or being all over the map because he is a very gank driven jungler (like maokai). The boots of mobility seem to point Zac as being the latter.



And now I'm either semi-paranoid or Subninja just gave us another hint about Zac's attacks (He played jeopardy with the W name earlier):

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razdan View Post
I'll be honest, I was kind've hoping for this half blob creature that was almost a slime pile and limbs extended out or he spit out of his mouth. I'm happy this isn't super cute ZAC, but I'll wait to see in-game/splash.
Oh don't worry, you'll be seeing quite a few splashes with Zac.
This seems to imply that one of Zac's attacks is a "Splash". (Teufelnacht posted this alternative idea, I think he might be right):
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Riot said somewhere that they were going back to the original 40 with Zac. The original 40 were released with more than one skin at launch. Each skin has a splash, so multiple skins would make sense to me.

Subninja gave us yet another potential hint:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MugenNightmare View Post
U CANNOT HURT DA BLOb
You can hurt him. Killing him is harder.
So apparently Zac is really hard to kill. Any ideas why?

crzymdscntst pointed out that a Rioter earlier said that Zac is
Quote:
"Like Anivia and similar to Cho'goth"
My guess for the Anivia part is that Anivia is hard to kill and Zac will follow suit (If you have a better idea please, speak up!!!).

Xelnath posted a potential hint (Or he was just messing with us):

Quote:
Illyoxis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbPuz48CFnw
We see a small blob going to Caitlyn's Yordle Snap Trap cupcake. We know ZAC likes sweets and is a green gooey guy.

Me: That was already decently well documented and has very little to do with his kit which is the only reason I didn't put it up there in the main post.

Xelnath: ... or does it?
Other than being grammatically incorrect if put in sequence, the only possible hint that I can think of this being is a hint to support one of a couple of things:
Quote:
The cc avoidance proposed (he's in Caitlyn's trap)
Some interaction with candy (I was earlier assuming that candy would be referenced in his quotes, but not in his kit, now I'm not so sure)
The "splits up into smaller blobs" theory, in any of it's thousands of incarnations.
Noticed this kind of late but it appears that Zac can get a speed boost by being humanoid (I think a bunch of people in this forum have seen it and have referred to it). From subninja of course!:
Quote:
He does have an escape tool... but it's more of a reverse escape tool. Man mode
Follow this link for analysis of information about the leaked W name: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3200982

That's all I've noticed, if you see anything else or have a good counter point to one of my items I'll change the list.


Edit: "Edit"'s were cluttering the post because I added to much stuff so I got rid of all but two.


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Resiakedrøm

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Yea, I would also think that a blob would be somewhat of a AP tank.


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Fubby3

Senior Member

03-12-2013

His W is 99% called Unstable Matter.


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XElement

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Resiakedrøm View Post
Yea, I would also think that a blob would be somewhat of a AP tank.
That is the only way a jungler can really jungle now.
I believe Kha made that point back in S2, Plus with the jungle being harder in S3...well, no champion can survive without being tanky or at least have crazy sustain(Fid for example).

I assume he has insane sustain since SV is recommanded as Essential in every single type.


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Baxter900

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by XElement View Post
That is the only way a jungler can really jungle now.
I believe Kha made that point back in S2, Plus with the jungle being harder in S3...well, no champion can survive without being tanky or at least have crazy sustain(Fid for example).

I assume he has insane sustain since SV is recommanded as Essential in every single type.

I mostly agree with you, except Khazix is still a strong jungler as long as you get exhaust or buy some sort of CC item for him. His problem with jungling is really that he jumps in, cripples the enemy, then can chase the enemy well, but he has no good CC to let his teammate catch up and finish the enemy and like you said, Khazix isn't tanky which translates to him not being able to turret dive safely. The S3 jungle is actually easier for Khazix because now he can focus on one guy since his W can usually one hit the other minions. (Khazix can easily solo a 3 level stronger opponent as long as they're isolated because of the extra % missing health execution burst his leveled Q get's)


But that was me getting completely off topic so please ignore this post!


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XElement

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxter900 View Post
I mostly agree with you, except Khazix is still a strong jungler as long as you get exhaust or buy some sort of CC item for him. His problem with jungling is really that he jumps in, cripples the enemy, then can chase the enemy well, but he has no good CC to let his teammate catch up and finish the enemy and like you said, Khazix isn't tanky which translates to him not being able to turret dive safely. The S3 jungle is actually easier for Khazix because now he can focus on one guy since his W can usually one hit the other minions. (Khazix can easily solo a 3 level stronger opponent as long as they're isolated because of the extra % missing health execution burst his leveled Q get's)


But that was me getting completely off topic so please ignore this post!
Welllll point is, I'm sure they would give him some crazy sustain and/or tankiness with the SV being so pushed forward lol.
And no Kha isn't bad, but there are plenty of better jungle picks honestly.


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Oznap

Senior Member

03-12-2013

They recommend 5 hp pots for fiddlesticks also. Its still possible that he uses mana.

Edit: Fiddlesticks uses mana consistently in his kit and yet they recommend 5 hp pots/machete. Zac is also possibly AP and has the same recommended items.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxter900 View Post
We know Riot expects him to be used as a Jungler due to hunter's machete starting.
We know that he is likely manaless due to no recommended mana potions.
However, the recommended items are consistent in having no little to no mana so there is a point I didn't actually look at. It may be a energy system or it could possibly be a masochism bar possibly (lore suggest hes resilient) we can wait a few days if we must.


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Baxter900

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by XElement View Post
Welllll point is, I'm sure they would give him some crazy sustain and/or tankiness with the SV being so pushed forward lol.
And no Kha isn't bad, but there are plenty of better jungle picks honestly.
lol yeah, I just like to argue

Khazix is only really good if your top and support are tanky. But then he's awesome.


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Geogeogeo

Senior Member

03-12-2013

Thanks for info. Upvote and sent to the top for your efforts.


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Beauneaux

Senior Member

03-12-2013

I think he may have mana, because a recommended essential item is spirit stone. i doubt riot would be putting in useless stats in essential items.


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