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Tips on Vayne Early Game

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BrightestCrayon

Member

03-11-2013

Just finished my journey to level 30 yesterday, so in preparation for moving to ranked I've been trying to learn how to play every role with some level of competence. I do pretty well in most of my games when I play top lane (generally with Pantheon), and I'm not a bad mid laner either. I bought Vayne when she was on sale because I wanted to learn to play a ranged ADC that feels more responsive and engaging than Ashe, which brings me to my problem.

I'm terrible in the early game. REALLY bad. I know Vayne has a pretty weak early game by design, but I should be able to survive better than I do. I think part of the problem is most of the people I queue with (including some of my friends) don't really realize that Vayne is no Twitch, Draven, Ezreal or Caitlyn early game, and cannot secure early kills or poke as easily; so they generally play aggressively and force me to move further up in the lane than I'd like to be. Let me know if I'm wrong about this. I have trouble with Ashe early game as well, but rarely die as she has a safe poke and can slow enemies to death who get out of position from a pretty safe range.

It seems like most people go out of their way to make sure I can't get a good wall pin stun, and I never really feel comfortable blowing a flash to try to get one. I would really rather just try to concentrate on farming more than getting kills, unless a good opportunity arises. Is this what I should prioritize? People seem to be dead set on the idea that I'm an adc, so I should be able to get kills immediately. After about 10 games with Vayne so far, I'm inclined to think that the champion just isn't meant to be played particularly aggressively early. Any tips from experienced Vayne players for surviving/coming out on top (or at least even with enemy adc) in the laning phase would be much appreciated.


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Stoogity

Member

03-11-2013

I only just started playing her, and I noticed the same thing. You have to be really opportunistic, although you can usually tumble into range and get off a shot with the other team. If they aren't paying attention, it's a freebie with decent damage. Worst case scenario is that it seems to trade well.

If you're playing with a great support player, you can absolutely secure those kills, depending on the support champ. I played with an excellent Thresh who helped score some kills and Blitz is kind of an obvious one. Otherwise, until you hear differently, better safe than dead.


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DeadFish

Senior Member

03-11-2013

Farm and and keep the bushs warded to stun them to wall get some attack speed it work good with sliver bullet (true dmg)


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i5ghZ5QsJ9

Member

03-11-2013

Try 9/21/0, Doran's Blade, You can take Lifesteal Quints for even better early game, it can affect ur lasthit tho. Max W, then Q. Go for 2 more Doran's into Blade Of Ruined King, Berserker's Greaves. Everyone will say that Def Masteries and 3 Doran's is waste, but it solve all early problems, makes her a lot more tanky (compared to 21-9-0), and dmg drop is unnoticeable for me.


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Freehugzqt

Recruiter

03-11-2013

Vaynes early game really depends on what you are fighting, as well as what support you have. The most standard set up for vayne is with a Taric. Have your taric ward the lane brush and stun what he can inside the brush near the wall. Early trades are very hard because vayne early game is horrible. She needs a lot of farm and she needs to be ahead. Its not uncommon for a vayne to lose lane early game but no matter just keep up on farm and you will become the late game terror. Use ult in team situations and avoid combat without your support (thats a given really) Other then that a standard opener such as Dorans Blade or Red Pot + potions is best. Mid game you want to focus on getting zeal + blood thirster into a Phantom Dancer + IE+ last whisper. Situational items are Quick silver sash(later turned into a murcurial scimitar), Guardian Angel, And/or Warmogs armor depending on the enemy team composition. Play smart but play safe. Best advice i could give.


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LogicalTautology

Senior Member

03-11-2013

Please don't go 9/21/0 on Vayne. You should always be going 21/X/X on an ADC unless you are very good and have a very specific reason. For Vayne, put 21 points into Offence, hitting everything in the two leftmost columns except for Summoner's Wrath.
If you need durability early, go 21/9/0 with points in Defense: max Summoner's Resolve, Durability, Hardiness, Veteran's Scars.
If you have mana issues or want your Summoner's up more, go 21/0/9 with points in Utility: max Summoner's Insight, Meditation, Mastermind, Runity Affinity, and a point in Wanderer.
A nice page that I like is a mix of both, with 21/5/4. Put all the usual points in Offense, then max Summoner's Resolve and Insight, Durability and Meditation.

Your Summoner Spells should always be Flash and Cleanse/Barrier. Go for the latter if you fear burst damage, the former if you fear CC.

You should level your skills QEQWQR, then R>Q>E>W.

Good choices of starting items (depending on playstyle, Support, and opponents in lane) are Doran's Blade (advanced option); Longsword+2 HP Pots (good safe option); FortPot+HP Pots (very advanced all-in option); Boots+3 HP Pots (very safe option, probably overly passive). I would recommend Sword+Pots in general, which possible Doran's start if you are playing with a Support that has sustain and are comfortable having no way to regen lost HP yourself.

Depending on your Support and opponent, it's actually possible to go all-in at level 2 in lane. Especially if your Support has any sort of hard CC and your opponents are squishy, your Tumble+Condemn into a wall gives you considerable burst and can win the early engage and possibly get a kill. Again, this is much easier with a Support like Taric or Alistar. In either event, after that you should be playing as passively as possible with Vayne; just freefarm as much as possible, using Tumble as needed to walk up to get a CS and quickly roll back to safety. When you inevitably get pushed under tower, Tumble is also very good at killing 6/6 minions under turret.

Your goal in the laning phase should be to get to your BT as soon as possible, then supplement it with your choice of PD (single-target damage) or SS (split-push/waveclear); making sure to get Boots1 and then Beserker's Greaves at some point. After that, add in an IE/LW/Defensive item in some order: if the laning phase is over and you are grouping to fight and being focussed, get a defensive item (more on this below); if the opposing team has 2 or more people building significant amounts of armor, get an LW; otherwise get your IE. Then add in either your Defensive item (if you got something else) or your LW. Then fill in the last of the 3.

For your defensive item, go with QSS (Scimitar later) if you are being CC'd even through the Cleanse. Otherwise, go with Warmogs for durability, GA for general revival (especially if enemy team has resets), or a Frozen Mallet if you need help kiting.

In teamfights, your job is to stay out of range of their damage-dealers and just focus down their frontline jumping you as soon as possible, silver bullets will help with this. Then only when it is safe and the enemy team is weak, go in and finish them off using your Ult/Tumble/Passive. Between teamfights, you are also an incredible splitpusher due to your unmatched dueling skills lategame and the fact you want as much farm as possible.

Hope that helps a bit!


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BrightestCrayon

Member

03-11-2013

Quote:
LogicalTautology:
Please don't go 9/21/0 on Vayne. You should always be going 21/X/X on an ADC unless you are very good and have a very specific reason. For Vayne, put 21 points into Offence, hitting everything in the two leftmost columns except for Summoner's Wrath.
If you need durability early, go 21/9/0 with points in Defense: max Summoner's Resolve, Durability, Hardiness, Veteran's Scars.
If you have mana issues or want your Summoner's up more, go 21/0/9 with points in Utility: max Summoner's Insight, Meditation, Mastermind, Runity Affinity, and a point in Wanderer.
A nice page that I like is a mix of both, with 21/5/4. Put all the usual points in Offense, then max Summoner's Resolve and Insight, Durability and Meditation.

Your Summoner Spells should always be Flash and Cleanse/Barrier. Go for the latter if you fear burst damage, the former if you fear CC.

You should level your skills QEQWQR, then R>Q>E>W.

Good choices of starting items (depending on playstyle, Support, and opponents in lane) are Doran's Blade (advanced option); Longsword+2 HP Pots (good safe option); FortPot+HP Pots (very advanced all-in option); Boots+3 HP Pots (very safe option, probably overly passive). I would recommend Sword+Pots in general, which possible Doran's start if you are playing with a Support that has sustain and are comfortable having no way to regen lost HP yourself.

Depending on your Support and opponent, it's actually possible to go all-in at level 2 in lane. Especially if your Support has any sort of hard CC and your opponents are squishy, your Tumble+Condemn into a wall gives you considerable burst and can win the early engage and possibly get a kill. Again, this is much easier with a Support like Taric or Alistar. In either event, after that you should be playing as passively as possible with Vayne; just freefarm as much as possible, using Tumble as needed to walk up to get a CS and quickly roll back to safety. When you inevitably get pushed under tower, Tumble is also very good at killing 6/6 minions under turret.

Your goal in the laning phase should be to get to your BT as soon as possible, then supplement it with your choice of PD (single-target damage) or SS (split-push/waveclear); making sure to get Boots1 and then Beserker's Greaves at some point. After that, add in an IE/LW/Defensive item in some order: if the laning phase is over and you are grouping to fight and being focussed, get a defensive item (more on this below); if the opposing team has 2 or more people building significant amounts of armor, get an LW; otherwise get your IE. Then add in either your Defensive item (if you got something else) or your LW. Then fill in the last of the 3.

For your defensive item, go with QSS (Scimitar later) if you are being CC'd even through the Cleanse. Otherwise, go with Warmogs for durability, GA for general revival (especially if enemy team has resets), or a Frozen Mallet if you need help kiting.

In teamfights, your job is to stay out of range of their damage-dealers and just focus down their frontline jumping you as soon as possible, silver bullets will help with this. Then only when it is safe and the enemy team is weak, go in and finish them off using your Ult/Tumble/Passive. Between teamfights, you are also an incredible splitpusher due to your unmatched dueling skills lategame and the fact you want as much farm as possible.

Hope that helps a bit!


Thanks, this helps a lot. I was wondering what you think about Blade of the Ruined King on Vayne, or if it's kind of a waste. I had been building it in my previous games, but honestly I do prefer Bloodthirster because the lifesteal/attack damage it gives is so sexy. The only disadvantage is losing half of the stacks when you die, but I suppose that it's not really that difficult to get them back.
I especially like the tips on the teamfighting. I was having trouble because of my short range, and doing dumb things like tumbling in to try to hit the enemy adc. Of course this puts me in the middle of everything and I die immediately, being of no use to my team.


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LogicalTautology

Senior Member

03-11-2013

Quote:
BrightestCrayon:
Thanks, this helps a lot. I was wondering what you think about Blade of the Ruined King on Vayne, or if it's kind of a waste. I had been building it in my previous games, but honestly I do prefer Bloodthirster because the lifesteal/attack damage it gives is so sexy. The only disadvantage is losing half of the stacks when you die, but I suppose that it's not really that difficult to get them back.
I especially like the tips on the teamfighting. I was having trouble because of my short range, and doing dumb things like tumbling in to try to hit the enemy adc. Of course this puts me in the middle of everything and I die immediately, being of no use to my team.

I'm not a big fan of BotRK > BT on Vayne, simply because it doesn't give you the stats you need. BT gives you high damage and lifesteal; BotRK gives you HP shred and kiting ability through the active.

Vayne is a duelist that has short range and high damage, so BT gives you huge dueling potential and sustains you on your AA damage, which is your primary source of damage. On the other hand, Vayne has high mobility through Tumble which somewhat negates the need for the Active, and the HP shred isn't as needed with your (better) SIlver Bullets.


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Daerkannon

Senior Member

03-11-2013

Just thought I'd add some comments to what LogicalTautology said. Maxing Q first and going for the BT/IE first is the 'old school' way of playing Vayne and still very applicable today. I used to strongly discourage going the BT route actually, but since the item changes for it I feel it's a valid item choice. You'll want to get good at using her Q to reset her attack animations going this route, especially for that third hit.

That being said, I disagree with his skill order insofar as I always max E last. In SR you rarely get the opportunity to use it twice in short order and it's not something you want to be spamming for damage.

There is a second build path for Vayne that says that Vayne's W and R are AD steroids and therefore what she needs first is some attack speed. This route you max W first, Q second and E last. Going this route BoTRK is actually a very good item on her. However don't go stacking BoTRK with a PD or something right away. Your second item should be a more traditional AD item like BT/IE or you'll lack mid-game oomph.

I also disagree that BoTRK's active is a bad thing on Vayne. She's one of the best champs at running people down, but getting away isn't one of her strong suits. The active actually helps her with both of those.


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WTB CARRY

Junior Member

03-11-2013

i think i'll contribute to this thread, vayne IS meh in the laning phase. yes, she can get kills, but only if you and your support can work together. the ONLY time i would go for a kill on vayne is when you know the enemy jangler isn't near you, and only if your support has hard CC or a displacement. vayne works wonders with supports such as blitz, alistar, taric, etc, but if you have lets say a soraka support, i would place farming ahead of attemping to get kills. vayne cannot trade very easily, but if you see your opponent go in for a last hit, try to auto-tumble-auto him, or just a simple auto if you think he's going to retaliate. rinse and repeat until you believe you can get the kill. as for items on vayne, botrk is DEFINITELY amazing. but save it for after you get your core- BT, PD, IE, and then BOTRK, and defense. also i suggest getting vampiric scepter FIRST, as it gives her much needed lifesteal. you will see a difference! glad to see new vayne players and i hope i helped you atleast a bit.

edit: summoners: flash/cleanse-barrier (never take ignite on vayne, it's just simply not worth losing another defensive summoner.)

masteries: i usually run 22/0/8 in this season, getting all the damage masteries, and buff duration/mana in utility.

as for items- i usually start boots1, 3 pots, into vampiric scepter, boots2 if i'm doing meh, or bfsword if i'm confident i could secure some kills / stay alive. then i usually run this build- Bloodthirster, Phantom Dancer, Infinity Edge, Blade Of The Ruined king, Guardian Angel, and enchantment Furor for kiting and such.

skills: skills are VERY situational on vayne, R whenever possible ofcourse, and i either max Q or E depending on my support. if it's a support with CC or displacement, (Blitz, etc) i'll max E to get those stuns, they are a deathsentence. if i have a more passive support, i'll go Q for harassing. good luck!


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