Matchmaking in TT

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Zeigster

Senior Member

03-09-2013

This is a long post I know, but bear with me for a while.

So, recently I played a game on Twisted Treeline, planning on having a fun game, win or lose. Unfortunately, a plan is sometimes just a list of things that don't happen.

I decided to pick Sion because I wanted to play AD, and he's my preferred pick on TT. The other two players on my team pick Teemo and Ezreal. We're up against Singed, Hecarim, and Jax.

Game starts out normally, Teemo shows up late so we back off from the pre-minion skirmish. I head top against Singed, backing off slightly so I can play cautiously. Singed leaves, and I ping missing, and noticing Ez and Teemo are pushed far I ping them to retreat. Singed ganks, they remained pushed and both die. I sigh to my self, but use the opportunity to farm a large wave of minions.

...until Teemo comes to my lane and pushes it without even trying to last hit. I tell him to stop, and go back to his lane. However, he doesn't, and immediately demands that I gank bottom, which is still pushed to the enemy tower, while I've barely reached level 3. This happens multiple times throughout the match.

After arguing with him for a bit, he claims the top minions aren't for me, and I don't need cs. By this point he's gotten around 3 kills, 3 assists, and 7 deaths. He complains about getting ganked multiple times as he wanders aimless around the map, far from towers, when the enemy team is missing.

Ezreal at this point isn't doing as bad as Teemo, but isn't doing quite good either. He keeps insisting on buying red potions before any of his core items and ends up falling further behind. I continue arguing with Teemo trying to get him to play cautiously, and stop purposely depriving me of farm. At this point Ezreal starts agreeing with Teemo, claiming that I'm, in turn, a noob, a tryhard, and a dictator.

At this point it hits me... these two probably haven't played a single game of Twisted Treeline... or at least close too it. It's a mentality I see far too often, that games on TT don't matter, to the point that cooperating with your team or at least refraining from trolling is considered laughable.

So I ask them, "You guys don't play much TT do you?" To which they respond by saying,
"No, your the noobie." I can accept not playing TT much, a lot of my friends consider me weird for playing TT. The issue here is that neither of them made any effort to learn how, and continued acting like they knew better.

The game turns out terribly. Teemo ends up getting several more kills and assists, but dies twice as many times. Inevitably he blames me for not tanking, not focusing, and in general being a noob. I end the game 4/7/6, with Ezreal and Teemo 4/11/3 and 8/14/5 respectively.

I check to see how many wins they have on TT... 3 each. No surprise there.

Long story, the point coming up soon.

I enjoy playing TT. Most games I end up playing with people that know what they're doing, and have roughly the same amount of wins as me. However, about 20% of games I'm playing with one or more people who have nearly zero wins in TT, and it shows.

This brings me to my question:
Is the Match-Making Rating generated separately for Summoners' Rift and Twisted Treeline?
or
Is it just that matchmaking isn't as consistent on TT because there are fewer people playing?

After the game I looked up both Teemo and Ezreal. They were both accomplished in normal games and ranked, being within the range I would expect to see on my team in SR. However, they obviously haven't played even a tenth of the games of TT that I have.

This leads me to believe MMR isn't generated separately at all, and this is a problem.

While SR and TT share more similarities than either to Dominion, TT is a different map, has a different meta, and many facets that SR doesn't. While playing a lot of SR may let you learn champions, and give you a head start on playing TT, that doesn't translate into being on the same level of familiarity with both maps.

Both the MMR formula and players need to take this into account.

Thoughts? Answers? Pointless TL;DR posts? Talk to me.


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Demacry

Senior Member

03-09-2013

If I remember rightly I believe that MM is suppose to develop an mmr for each map and game type (the only two that share one is SR normals and PG) in addition to your overall elo. I think it was explained a while ago that the mmr is suppose to act as a supplement to help MM arrange teams a bit more accurately per game type.

I remember slugging my way through a lot of teams like the one you just described, and every now and then they still show up. I only have about 380-400 wins on TT but that's out of about 700 games so my win ratio is pretty good. It wasn't until recently (probably my last 100 games or so) that I started getting consistent allies who had a better understanding of the flow of TT, there's still the occasional ignorant player or troll but they're becoming a lot less common for me and most of my allies and opponents have wins ranging from 200-450.

I do remember when I first hit 200 wins I was still getting allies with only 10-12 wins. Depending on your number of wins and the new MM system (I believe they're still tweaking it every couple of patches) you may be at a point where you're in limbo between serious and not-serious allies and are open to all of them. I think a red once explained it that the system doesn't see a lot of difference between two players with 20 wins and 150 wins respectively but does see a huge difference between two players with 200 wins and 500 wins. Those are just rough numbers that I'm pulling from memory and I have no idea what the exact "leveling" points in the MM's banks are but I do believe the general concept holds true.

If you'd like I'd be happy to slug through some randoms with you and we can complain about all our ****** 3rds. Short and long of it though I think you're still in the grinding stage as the MM develops your personal mmr for TT normals.


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Zeigster

Senior Member

03-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demacry View Post
If I remember rightly I believe that MM is suppose to develop an mmr for each map and game type (the only two that share one is SR normals and PG) in addition to your overall elo. I think it was explained a while ago that the mmr is suppose to act as a supplement to help MM arrange teams a bit more accurately per game type.

I remember slugging my way through a lot of teams like the one you just described, and every now and then they still show up. I only have about 380-400 wins on TT but that's out of about 700 games so my win ratio is pretty good. It wasn't until recently (probably my last 100 games or so) that I started getting consistent allies who had a better understanding of the flow of TT, there's still the occasional ignorant player or troll but they're becoming a lot less common for me and most of my allies and opponents have wins ranging from 200-450.

I do remember when I first hit 200 wins I was still getting allies with only 10-12 wins. Depending on your number of wins and the new MM system (I believe they're still tweaking it every couple of patches) you may be at a point where you're in limbo between serious and not-serious allies and are open to all of them. I think a red once explained it that the system doesn't see a lot of difference between two players with 20 wins and 150 wins respectively but does see a huge difference between two players with 200 wins and 500 wins. Those are just rough numbers that I'm pulling from memory and I have no idea what the exact "leveling" points in the MM's banks are but I do believe the general concept holds true.

If you'd like I'd be happy to slug through some randoms with you and we can complain about all our ****** 3rds. Short and long of it though I think you're still in the grinding stage as the MM develops your personal mmr for TT normals.
Thanks for the reply. As it turns out, I am around 200 wins, so I'll have to play through a few more games to see how it turns out, though I'd still like a concrete answer as to how TT takes ELO/MMR into account.

On a side note, one weird thing I've noticed... Whenever I get matched with players new to TT it seems that 75% of them have exactly 3 wins. Not just single digit wins, but exactly 3. When I get matched with people that have roughly the same wins as me, there isn't that kind of consistency.


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Demacry

Senior Member

03-10-2013

If you want real specifics on mmr/elo you'd have to bait a red to tell you. I think Yegg is the one in charge of the MM system (or it may be he does just ranked leagues, I can't remember).

I'm pretty sure the "exactly 3 wins" thing is just s coincidence.


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Hamm3rhand

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Senior Member

03-10-2013

i believe they are supposed to be separate. that said, i've just recently started playing TT since the rework, and after starting out 12-4 i'm getting matched with people with over 200 wins. so it could just be people that haven't played very much and are getting high starts on their early games. Its just really difficult to tell, especially since they changed the matchmaking formula a month ago or so.