So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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chumbler

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightfallyn View Post
I have to see it first. I have seen riot over nerf - over buff, and release champs that were broken from day one weather too weak or too strong. Nothing yet indicates where the new kit will fall. They have already said the reason they reduced the the mantra charge to 1 is cause her new "Mantra'd" skills too hard to balance with 2 charges. That means the non mantra'd ones are significantly weaker. Again I say it will all depend on what the actual numbers and ratios are.
No, it doesn't mean that.


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BestBilbo

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Needles K View Post
The old Karma's theme of "balance" wasn't executed perfectly, but it was *distinct*. The new Karma's kit might be executed better, but its theme is "Here are a bunch of parts we had lying around."
Like I've said many times in this thread - this is the actual truth - there is nothing on Karma's rework kit that thematically ties to her as a character and her visual appearance.

They are a bunch of mechanics, nothing more, nothing less and it proves to be completely not-karma-at-all because the new kit is about 'tension and momentum' something that doesn't have anything close to do with 'karma' 'yin-yang' and 'spiritualism'


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DemiluniS

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BestBilbo View Post
Could you actually respond to my previous post dedicated to you - I asked you a question and no offense but it looks like you are avoiding to answer it.
what answer you expect? he gave you examples of a champions that fit the same role the new karma will fit! the fact their player base is smaller or they are less fun or doesn'y fit the meta or a bit weaker are the direct reasons they got low popularity and win rate!


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xNxExBxUxLxAx

Junior Member

03-18-2013

Heh geez...Didn't think it could get any worse - how wrong I was!

New 'Karma's' personality in this realm now feels insignificant and uninspiring. Add to that the unimaginative character and kit design, and you have just another champion#XXX.

I would hardly call this a successful rework...And what's even more striking is that I genuinely believe myself as well as plenty of others who have posted in this thread could have come up with something quite a bit better in only 15 minutes or so.

It would take a lot of guts from Riot to scrap this and start anew(if an entire rework is even necessary), but of course they wouldn't do that - even if it was the right thing to do. I'm afraid we'll just have to sigh and live with it - a resigning feeling I fear is becoming all too common with them and the gaming industry in general.

But hey, at least we get the 'traditional skin' right? *rolls eyes*


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BestBilbo

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DemiluniS View Post
what answer you expect? he gave you examples of a champions that fit the same role the new karma will fit! the fact their player base is smaller or they are less fun or doesn'y fit the meta or a bit weaker are the direct reasons they got low popularity and win rate!
Who is 'he' - I asked YOU a question, could you actually respond to it and not this 'he' you are referring to.

EDIT: if you refer to the Scarizard post you just copied on the previous page - would you like to know why he is contradicting himself by pretty much saying 'Ive turned karma into a design that does not match our standards'

EDIT2: Would be awesome if people that downvote could explain why they're downvoting. Thanks!


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Needles K

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightfallyn View Post
They have already said the reason they reduced the the mantra charge to 1 is cause her new "Mantra'd" skills too hard to balance with 2 charges. That means the non mantra'd ones are significantly weaker.
No, it doesn't. Instead of making the base skills even weaker, they chose to make Mantra available less often.


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Nightfallyn

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
No, it doesn't mean that.

Of course it does. If the combos for mantra are too strong then that means the non mantras ones are not too strong.. or "weaker". IF one is too strong and the other is normal that means significantly its weaker then the mantra'd version. The key is how much weaker which is why I need to see the numbers to say for sure.


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DemiluniS

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Not really. People pick Graves, but I don't think anyone would argue that he's OP. Heck, Ashe and Varus are extremely similar, and neither is considered OP. Shyvana and Mundo are both tanky bruisers who are great at counterjungling but somewhat weak at ganking who become extremely hard to kill later on. It's less true this season, but last season the choice between Shyv and Mundo was largely one of flavor
there's a aspect of preference and game style, I'm personally don't like graves, ez, corki even tho they considered the holy trinity in S2. the only similarity between ashe and varus are their initiation ults, however they got different tools in their kit to differ between them and actually pick the one that is better against a certain team comp, not taking gamestyle into account, that's why varus is picked in tourneys and ashe not, varus got % hp damage and healing reduction which fits perfectly the current meta. ashe doesn't have those tools so she isn't played as much right now, so they are not exactly the same.
Quote:
My point isn't that she's exactly like Ryze. My point is that there's nothing at all unique about her. Her skills are just less-powerful versions of other champions' skills. There's nothing left that makes Karma herself. The old Karma's theme of "balance" wasn't executed perfectly, but it was *distinct*. The new Karma's kit might be executed better, but its theme is "Here are a bunch of parts we had lying around."
you're wrong, the new karma is all about inner power, when she uses her mantra she actually releases her inner power to strength her other abilities, and that's her uniqueness and theme, there's no other champ in the game who does it or fits this theme. talking about her skills, well there's no endless place to think up about new abilities, there are many shields, skillshots and bonds in the game, but what makes her unique is how all those tools work together.
Quote:
Cone heal that becomes stronger as the team becomes weaker, passive that makes Karma stronger as she becomes weaker, pass-through tether that both buffs and debuffs, Mantra system. All gone, with photocopies of other champs' skills taking their place.

The boom-shield was pretty core, and it's still around, but it was probably the least unique thing about Karma.
heal that become stronger as the team becomes weaker? it heals for a flat max %, not % of missing hp, and it's a skillshot that you almost never hit the whole team with or even 2 members of the team cuz no one just gonna stand there and wait to your heal, alistair got an aoe heal soraka got her ult, that's not unique.
passive that makes karma stronger as she gets weaker? copy-paste mechanic from tryn and olaf and taken away from ryze.
tether that both buffs and debuffs? orianna's W, taric's W. that's not what made her unique, she didn't have a unique gameplay, you operating her abilities seperately but never talks about her kit as a whole


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DemiluniS

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BestBilbo View Post
Who is 'he' - I asked YOU a question, could you actually respond to it and not this 'he' you are referring to.

EDIT: if you refer to the Scarizard post you just copied on the previous page - would you like to know why he is contradicting himself by pretty much saying 'Ive turned karma into a design that does not match our standards'

EDIT2: Would be awesome if people that downvote could explain why they're downvoting. Thanks!
there's nothing to explain if you can't formulate a normal question
P.S. no! he refering to the role she gonna fit and give other examples of the champions who fit this role, to give you a different examples besides your favorable zilian and morgana


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DemiluniS

Senior Member

03-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Needles K View Post
No, it doesn't. Instead of making the base skills even weaker, they chose to make Mantra available less often.
they made her mantra feel like a real ultimate. that's all